Arkansans' Opinions on The Health Care Reform Debate
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of course they do not want to kill older people, that is taking comments out of context. The problems lies with the possibility of rationing which will make it harder for seniors to get things like by pass surgery. that is just an example. I prefer to know all the if, adds and buts before I suppot the plan as it is being presented at this time..
Nita
I listened to a segment on NPR about the Canadian health system one day this week and a doctor from there said in Canda they have a problem with access. It isn't that the government wants to restrict care, they don't have enough practitioners for the demand.
As for bypass surgery, studies have shown that it doesn't improve the life span of the person. It does improve quality of life and all those things. There are things that are more cost effective that can be done for people that need bypass surgeries and they still have an improved quality of life. Canada does these things. In America, someone could have a bypass surgery and someone in Canada wouldn't have one. If scientists studied them over the same period of time, the person in Canada and the person in the U.S. would have the same outcome. For that person in the U.S. to have that surgery, it cost a pretty penny. Coronary Bypass 82.5 Percent More Expensive in U.S. than in Canada http://www.pnhp.org/single_payer_res...ison_Sheet.pdf
Quote:
U.S. patients were far more likely to undergo expensive and invasive treatments such as coronary
angiography (34.9% U.S. vs. 6.7% Canada); percutaneous transluminal coronary angioplasty
(11.7% U.S. vs. 1.5% Canada); and coronary-artery bypass surgery (10.6% U.S. vs. 1.4% Canada).
Eisenberg, M. et al, “Outcomes and the Cost of Coronary Artery
Why is there so much concern for seniors? Are they somehow more importan than everyone else? What about rationing for EVERYONE?
Rationing happens every day with health insurance companies. At the same time, not all rationing is bad. Everyone doesn't need to see a doctor every time they get the sniffles.
I listened to a segment on NPR about the Canadian health system one day this week and a doctor from there said in Canda they have a problem with access. It isn't that the government wants to restrict care, they don't have enough practitioners for the demand.
As for bypass surgery, studies have shown that it doesn't improve the life span of the person. It does improve quality of life and all those things. There are things that are more cost effective that can be done for people that need bypass surgeries and they still have an improved quality of life. Canada does these things. In America, someone could have a bypass surgery and someone in Canada wouldn't have one. If scientists studied them over the same period of time, the person in Canada and the person in the U.S. would have the same outcome. For that person in the U.S. to have that surgery, it cost a pretty penny. Coronary Bypass 82.5 Percent More Expensive in U.S. than in Canada http://www.pnhp.org/single_payer_res...ison_Sheet.pdf
Why is there so much concern for seniors? Are they somehow more importan than everyone else? What about rationing for EVERYONE?
Rationing happens every day with health insurance companies. At the same time, not all rationing is bad. Everyone doesn't need to see a doctor every time they get the sniffles.
ok, of course no one is saying they actually ration per sey, but they only do so many of whatever. Why do they not have enough doctors? You keep believing the liberal media and I will keep believing people I talk to that have experienced the Canadian way. The example I have given are not from people I have tried to sway. They are strictly voluntery discussions. One was on a cruise ship and it was between 3 couples, all from Canada. My husband nd I just sat there. listening. We never said a word. For me that was HELL@@ As for by-pass not extending life I would have a hard time accepting that. Stints, yes, I think that is pretty much proven, depending on the situation. Even then, it will open up arteries, but is probably done too often. My step mom had by-pass about 20 years ago. 3 arteries were 90% blcoked. At 92 she is still alive. Everyone in her family has died of heart related problems or most everyone. None have lived past about 80. Even if it only quality of life, so what? Do we have a right for a decent quality of life? I would think so.
ok, of course no one is saying they actually ration per sey, but they only do so many of whatever. Why do they not have enough doctors? You keep believing the liberal media and I will keep believing people I talk to that have experienced the Canadian way. The example I have given are not from people I have tried to sway. They are strictly voluntery discussions. One was on a cruise ship and it was between 3 couples, all from Canada. My husband nd I just sat there. listening. We never said a word. For me that was HELL@@ As for by-pass not extending life I would have a hard time accepting that. Stints, yes, I think that is pretty much proven, depending on the situation. Even then, it will open up arteries, but is probably done too often. My step mom had by-pass about 20 years ago. 3 arteries were 90% blcoked. At 92 she is still alive. Everyone in her family has died of heart related problems or most everyone. None have lived past about 80. Even if it only quality of life, so what? Do we have a right for a decent quality of life? I would think so.
Nita
What a decent quality of life means will vary from person to person. I won't even touch that.
The point is that in Canada they achieve the same results and spend less.
Of course there are Canadians who don't enjoy the system. One must also look at what province they live in, what the population is, the number of specialists,doctors, etc there are in the province; etc.
The same goes for here in America. Some people love the system, some hate it.
Liberal media....I guess. I like to read books on the subject and as of now, I have about 6 books from the library on the topic. I'd be happy to share the names of them if you're interested.
I like to look on both sides of an issue. I like some of the Republican ideas, some of the Libertarian ideas, and some of the Democratic ideas.
Liberal isn't bad in my book. I know some people throw around like it's some sort of slur.
My problem with the gov't option that is being talked about is this: Sure it might work as intended for a while, but all that needs to happen for it to take over the whole HC industry is to have one rouge leader. (I mean of that ummm, what will we call it. oh well. whatever they will call the gov't option. the head of that) That person asks for more money from congress and suddenly, because prices can be lowered so dramatically, we have a monopoly. (If you don't think that congress will pass that, look at spending for Iraq.)
I think that the idea of rationing is somewhat reasonable. I do not think that anyone is hoping for it now by any means. That having been said, I believe that once the baby boomers start retiring en masse, there will be a huge drop in HC that is being provided by their employers. As the "medi" systems that are in place now will not be able to handle this, those seniors will turn to the gov't option. Unfortunately, any preventative practices imposed by the bill will not have much effect upon those who have already lived such vast amounts of their lives. The costs of these seniors will be huge. The two things that can fix this: 1. more money from congress. 2. rationing of services.
While I see the first being much more likely, I can see why people are scared, and to dismiss them because of those fears lacks a lot of sympathy.
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As for by-pass not extending life I would have a hard time accepting that. Stints, yes, I think that is pretty much proven, depending on the situation. Even then, it will open up arteries, but is probably done too often. My step mom had by-pass about 20 years ago. 3 arteries were 90% blcoked. At 92 she is still alive. Everyone in her family has died of heart related problems or most everyone. None have lived past about 80. Even if it only quality of life, so what? Do we have a right for a decent quality of life? I would think so. 
