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Old 08-17-2010, 01:16 AM
 
53 posts, read 148,478 times
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Honuman,

As an Asian-American originally from China I have to say that it's a trade-off between economic development/facilities versus cost of living. In economics usually as economic development increases the cost of living increases. Your US $ value in Asia will gradually decrease over time as Asia increases in it's wealth but also in its per capita income amongst other things. Personally if you want the easy life I'd do Malaysia, maybe one of the beach cities like Penang. English would be semi-widespread due to the British colonialism of Malaysia. And Australia/New Zealand/Europe are not too far away in terms of flight hours if you don't want to slug the hours to fly trans-pacific back to the US to get some 1st world feel. You could always fly to Bangkok, KL or SG for the medical treatment if you wanted. SG and HK SAR are practically 1st world cities in Asia with per-capita incomes nearly matching with Taiwan, Japan and South Korea nearly on the same level. China is differently due to the population but greatly changing with the in-ward provinces modernizing.

On a side note now you're making me dream of traveling back to Asia more often (I'm too busy these days, one day with my frequent flyer miles I will) to visit family and holiday! ;-)
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Old 08-17-2010, 05:20 AM
 
3,753 posts, read 5,266,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonuMan View Post
If I understand MM2H correctly, a couple can still live in Malaysia if one person is retired and the other is not.

I'm fortunate to have a job I that can do anywhere there's a reliable high-speed Internet connection, so I'd be getting paid by my US employer.
You understand correctly. Your wife could obtain the MM2H retirement visa for both of you, and you could continue to work through the internet without having to pay Malaysian taxes, since -I assume- they are banking money into your US account.

One new addition to the MM2H in the past year is that retired people are allowed to work up to 20 hours per week in a part-time capacity. The company/school would not be required to get a work permit which makes them happy. My school and I plan on doing this once I can no longer obtain a full-time work visa.
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Old 08-17-2010, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
1,082 posts, read 2,391,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Speaking from my own years of experiences in Thailand, while there can sometimes be political unrest, the problems are internal matter so it's not often that foreigners are caught up by it. The exceptions were when the airport was occupied by activists some time ago, and the recent event that (now over) that occupied an area of shopping businesses and upscale business hotels. I've been in the country during such times (years ago) and was completely unaware of any problems. The only way I found out about it was when I got back to the US and people told me about news broadcasts, in some cases a number of unfounded rumors. My wife was there from February to April (3 months) earlier this year, which was during the recent event, and it had little to no effect anywhere else.

You're thinking is correct, that such events are usually confined to certain areas of Bangkok. which is the seat of government. You're also correct that there are plenty of places in the US that might not be advisable to hang around in. Outside of BKK, even inside BKK, it's people living their lives as usual. In my opinion, it isn't as great a drawback as it may sometimes appear from the standpoint of foreigners.

That said, by all means it might be worth exploring other countries around SE Asia. However, as a place to retire, there are plenty of bargains and has a much wider variety of interests than just about anywhere else in SE Asia, Thailand gets my vote. I have to admit I'm rather partial though.
Hey, there's nothing wrong with being partial.

Regarding perceptions of safety, during the early 1990s, I worked for a high-tech company in Atlanta. We purchased a small software company in Toronto, Canada and brought all the employees to Atlanta for two weeks of training, offering some of them the opportunity to relocate if they wanted to. Several of them confessed to me that they imagined the US to be a hotbed of crime, with half the population armed with handguns. I told them that was a myth perpetrated by Hollywood movies and TV shows, and that the only crime I'd been a victim of during my entire life was one incident of petty theft. Well, during the first week, a group of our Canadian visitors had the window of their rental car smashed out and their belongings stolen from the trunk. During the second week, a group of them witnessed a robbery, shooting, and murder in the parking lot of a suburban shopping center near the company headquarters and also near my apartment. As you might imagine, nobody could convince most of the Canadians that these were anomalies and that the suburbs of Atlanta were safe overall.

It was a lesson to me not to base my perceptions of other countries solely on the negative news reports I see. I imagine that if I had been born and raised in another country, I'd probably view the US as violent, decadent, and arrogant. I now work for a leadership development and consulting company that does business all over the world, and teaching multicultural sensitivity is a big part of what we do. It's human nature to grow up believing that the culture, values, beliefs, and habits of your nation/state/ethnic group/religion/high school/tribe are "right," and that everyone else's are "wrong," or at least misguided. It takes a leap in consciousness to realize that culture, to a great extent, is relative, and that Western individualism isn't "better" than Eastern collectivism, for instance. That said, different people are drawn to different cultures. My ethnic heritage is mostly Eastern European, but I have no particular affinity for Eastern Europe. I've been interested in Asian cultures ever since I saw the miniseries Shogun as a teenager. I love Latin cultures, but my wife doesn't, which removes Latin America from our list of possible retirement destinations. She loves Asian cultures, though.
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Old 08-17-2010, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
1,082 posts, read 2,391,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willzzz88 View Post
Honuman,

As an Asian-American originally from China I have to say that it's a trade-off between economic development/facilities versus cost of living. In economics usually as economic development increases the cost of living increases. Your US $ value in Asia will gradually decrease over time as Asia increases in it's wealth but also in its per capita income amongst other things. Personally if you want the easy life I'd do Malaysia, maybe one of the beach cities like Penang. English would be semi-widespread due to the British colonialism of Malaysia. And Australia/New Zealand/Europe are not too far away in terms of flight hours if you don't want to slug the hours to fly trans-pacific back to the US to get some 1st world feel. You could always fly to Bangkok, KL or SG for the medical treatment if you wanted. SG and HK SAR are practically 1st world cities in Asia with per-capita incomes nearly matching with Taiwan, Japan and South Korea nearly on the same level. China is differently due to the population but greatly changing with the in-ward provinces modernizing.

On a side note now you're making me dream of traveling back to Asia more often (I'm too busy these days, one day with my frequent flyer miles I will) to visit family and holiday! ;-)
Yes, that makes sense. The trick is finding that "sweet spot" that works for you. I've said that retiring in Hawaii might be too expensive for us, but that's not entirely true: We could buy a piece of cheap rainforest property in a high-risk lava-flow zone on the Big Island, build a shack, install solar panels, get our water from cachement, grow vegetables, and live "off the grid," but that's not how we want to spend our retirement. But neither do we need to live in a McMansion in a gated community near a major city, drive a Mercedes, and buy the latest, greatest, most expensive consumer goods. We're looking for a safe place, a modest but comfortable house or condo, good infrastructure, friendly people, and variety of social, cultural, and nature activities. Having English spoken is a plus, although we'd do our best to learn the language of wherever we move. Thailand and Malaysia appear to hit our particular sweet spot.

As for the cost of living rising with as living standards rise, that's an argument for renting rather than buying, if you're on a fixed income. If one place becomes too expensive, you can more easily move to another. I've read that, in another decade, Vietnam might be where Malaysia is now.

As a Baby Boomer, it's still a bit amazing to me that China and Vietnam are open as travel destinations. I remember when the first tours to mainland China were offered. My dad advised me that I might want to take one, because the window could close at any time due to a change in government policy. Now the company I work for regulary holds leadership development programs for clients in Beijing and Shanghai. Unfortunately, my job doesn't involve travel. And until I started researching, my mental images of SE Asia were primarily from the Vietnam War era. I'm glad times have changed for the better. And I hope you get a chance to visit home again soon!
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Old 08-17-2010, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
1,082 posts, read 2,391,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teak View Post
You understand correctly. Your wife could obtain the MM2H retirement visa for both of you, and you could continue to work through the internet without having to pay Malaysian taxes, since -I assume- they are banking money into your US account.

One new addition to the MM2H in the past year is that retired people are allowed to work up to 20 hours per week in a part-time capacity. The company/school would not be required to get a work permit which makes them happy. My school and I plan on doing this once I can no longer obtain a full-time work visa.
Great, thanks. I think my wife and I would both enjoy working part time after retirement. The idea of playing golf, bingo, and shuffleboard in an old-folks' community until our dying day never appealed to us.
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Old 08-18-2010, 04:55 PM
 
693 posts, read 1,597,699 times
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I've lived in Thailand and Cambodia for several years (not near retirement age though ), and I think both could be ok places to retire, depending on your level of adventure. I personally love Thailand, and if you don't want to live on the coast CM is lovely. It has all the amenities, good healthcare, good transport links, and an easy journey to get out in the countryside. I will echo others and say "NO!" to Pattaya. It is not a place I would ever dream of living. Way too seedy.

Cambodia is a different kettle of fish but also has advantages. You can buy an annual business visa with very little admin hassle (even if you're not doing business) and live there on that. And you can still work, you can easily register your own business, etc. I would not consider owning property there because of the sketchy legal climate. Like Thailand you're not allowed to own land anyway, but you can buy a condo. I do know expats who have purchased land and built homes through various schemes, but none of it is outright legal and you could get screwed in the end.

Cambodia does not have the healthcare that Thailand does, but from either Siem Reap or Phnom Penh you have direct flights to Bangkok. However, there are good doctors there (both local and expat) for non-serious illness. There are also medevac services for emergencies, and you can buy insurance for this. If I were to move back to Cambodia I would live in Kampot or Siem Reap. Kampot is a coastal province, really laid back and beautiful, about 2.5 hours from PP by road. Siem Reap is *the* tourist hub, because of Angkor Wat. It has all the amenities. In recent years PP has become too built up and busy for me, but it also is a livable city if you like the hustle and bustle.

Infrastructure in Cambodia is improving, but it is nothing like Thailand. However, it's still not hard to get around, and simply because it is a smaller country you can see more of it. Learn some language and a whole world will open up to you. Cambodia has a very different vibe than Thailand, not sure how to explain it, but personally I prefer it (though like I said I love Thailand too). I think though that a lot of people find the poverty overwhelming at times.

If you are going to visit the region definitely give Cambodia a visit, you should know fairly quickly if it is somewhere you could consider living.
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Old 08-22-2010, 02:11 AM
 
2,145 posts, read 5,049,034 times
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Having read thru this entire thread, just thought I'd add my two cents...
Alot can change in 10 years (including retirement programs and visas, etc), and I agree w/you to watch Vietnam. And also watch that current 'hot spots' are not the antithesis of what you are looking for, by the time another decade rolls by.
Ex: you couldn't pay me to live in Costa Rica these days...you know?
Things become so trendy, esp. with the internet available, and become past their prime.

Also, suggestion:
Rent your home out for a year, once your wife retires, and travel around, spend 6 months somewhere, for example, or even just 3 months, and see what it feels like as a 'non tourist'. B/C even visiting a place and staying w/friends for a month, really is different than living there full time. Then you can come back, sell your place, and move with confidence.

Another suggestion:
Consider downsizing-sell your current home, buy a smaller place in pdx or the surrounds, and have it available as a rental, OR, spend part of the year there [ie, summers] and sublease it for the school year. Then, you have options.

there's no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and I have seen SO many people do this. But places don't always resonate forever-read the articles and stories of the phases of an expat-honeymoon stage, etc.
Sometimes, having the best of both worlds IS possible. And oftentimes, people find they miss their home country [in this case, first world amenities and 'western way of thinking'], although they could not conceive of this prior to moving. And while you are right, it takes a leap in consciousness to understand that neither eastern nor western culture is better nor worse for the most part, it also takes a leap of consciousness to realize which culture is your own personal dominant one, and therefore the one that your psyche is at home in.

Just to add: I've seen people do this even in the USA. Ex: tired of NYC or SFO, make a move to a small town in CO, buy a HUGE house that dwarfs their previous tiny apt....and a few years later, have some regrets about the drasticness of their move. It's easy for the pendelum to swing dramatically in making big life changes and decisions...it's also more exciting to think it big terms. But sometimes the middle path is the wisest choice. [as the Buddha would say (:]

Of course, it's not like anything is permanent; if you move full time to Thailand or Malaysia, and decided in a few years that you missed Oregon or would just rent in Hawaii b/c it's worth the tradeoff for you, then you could do that. Or, you might love SE Asia and then decide to sell that Pdx home an d move for good. So many choices!!!

Anyway, good luck to you---and I hear there's quite a bit of japanese influence in peru and brasil. in fact, my brasilian friend here in so cal is japanese brasilian. so you may be able to find some influences to satisfy both, in LA???? And, have you considered Bali? I know, i'ts very touristed, but is still very unique. I would consider it as a parttime destination, along with CM. Bali does have charm, something the more industrial places like much of Malaysia, lacks. And it has a nice set of resources for expats, while still having i'ts own strong culture. (same for chiang mai; I agree with others on that locale for you). And you would have to be out of the main beach tourist areas of Bali for this. (I'm always amazed when people complain about how the beach areas of bali were not great-Balinese are not really seafaring people, and their culture reflects this. Australian surfers are seafaring people in Bali-LOL) Ubud and surrounds are still some of the most unique cultural attractions in SE Asia-even with the tourism impact. And, you are much more likely to be able to live in inner Bali without a gated compound, than pretty much anywhere else in the region, as an American expat. Again, if you do a parttime gig, you could rent a beach hut for cheap in SO MANY places in the region. But if you are talking about renting or buying a permanent, year round place, and you don't want to be in an 'expat ghetto' as you called it, well, your choices are limited. You might want to browse the internet for images of modern architecture in much of the region, too. It's not that pretty; it's very sterile but designed to withstand either storms or for safety. Honestly, if you don't want to live 'off the grid' in Hawaii, you may not like the alternative in SE Asia. (though I know there are old colonial neighborhoods (ie, charming houses, not cinder block or cement) in some places, such as Laos and in vietnam...but be cautious about how sound they are now, about mold, infestations, etc.) It sounds like you would like Japan, though.



Myself? I've lived in africa, asia, the caribbean, and travelled to SE Asia and Israel,etc....At this point, I don't think i'd do fulltime in Asia anywhere. I kinda got burnt on third world lifestyle. Tahiti-that would be nice!!! (: Ciao-

Last edited by lrmsd; 08-22-2010 at 02:23 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 08-29-2010, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Australia
34 posts, read 95,243 times
Reputation: 35
Malaysia has PROPERTY RIGHTS for foreigners and a legal system that was created by the British before they left in 1957.

In contrast, foreigners are not legally allowed to own land in Thailand. Call the Thai embassy in your country to verify what I say. Way too many foreigners have been scammed by shysters selling apartments in Thailand.

Imagine putting your hard earned savings to buy something to which you cannot ever have title to. Too horrible to contemplate.

Last edited by rainbowtokyo; 08-29-2010 at 02:20 PM..
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Old 08-29-2010, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Paris, France
321 posts, read 957,072 times
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Thailand tempts me, but Vietnam or Cambodia tempt me more.

Thailand appears to be very open-minded and accepting of different ways of living, as does Cambodia. Vietnam is more strict, but I think that it will become more reliable in future years, because the Vietnamese are quite frank and honest. Thais and Cambodians are all smiles and 80% hypocrisy, which I don't really care for. If the Vietnamese don't like something you are doing, you will know about it very quickly.

Malaysia could be good as well, but there is always the possibility that it will take the turn towards a more hard line Islam, which would not appeal to me.
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Old 08-30-2010, 06:17 PM
 
693 posts, read 1,597,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowtokyo View Post
Malaysia has PROPERTY RIGHTS for foreigners and a legal system that was created by the British before they left in 1957.

In contrast, foreigners are not legally allowed to own land in Thailand. Call the Thai embassy in your country to verify what I say. Way too many foreigners have been scammed by shysters selling apartments in Thailand.

Imagine putting your hard earned savings to buy something to which you cannot ever have title to. Too horrible to contemplate.
It is not legal to own land in Thailand, but it is legal to own a condo, as long as the building has below a certain percentage of foreigners owning a unit (can't remember the percentage off-hand). But a house? Nope. Never.
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