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Old 05-25-2009, 04:12 PM
 
895 posts, read 2,147,440 times
Reputation: 358

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Quote:
Originally Posted by eskercurve View Post
I dunno man, when I was in Tokyo I saw quite a lot of foreign tourists. It's not unusual to see foreigners in Tokyo. Other parts it is and people will ask you where you're from, etc. Thousands and thousands of them. But I dunno, I've never been to NYC other than just going through it. I leave it up to more worldly people than I to make that decision. To be sure NYC is more of a world icon of America, and since America is seen as more open and accepting, more people wish to visit.

Don't worry man I wasn't knocking you too hard. To be sure both cities have a huge tourist pull and both are world-class cities.


And about the future possibility of other cities in Asia surpassing Tokyo, I totally agree. At some point Shanghai and Beijing definitely will. Some say it already has, but I disagree.
I would say NY has more international tourists. Tokyo has more tourists in general though (japanese and foreign).

@62 Also unless you can show me a link or something about tokyo copying times square i have no reason to believe it. As far as i know people in dense cities in asia advertised their shops on buildings etc to increase their business. Its been going on for just as long as times square.

Here is a picture of tokyo in 1960


I wouldnt be suprisd if the same advertising was there in the 50s, heck even during ww2. But i dont feel like searching for it.

 
Old 05-25-2009, 05:03 PM
 
8 posts, read 46,464 times
Reputation: 11
^ i was wrong. times square first began to take shape in 1904. that's way before tokyo even developed.

advertising history at times square:

http://www.si.edu/opa/insideresearch/articles/V17_TimesSquare.html

this is an old picture of times square from maybe 1904? from the look of the cars you can tell its around that time:

http://timessquare.com/images/stories/history/images/ts3301.jpg

http://timessquare.com/New_York_City..._City_History/



read about the great white way in times square. advertising history in that location goes back nearly 100 years. its probably the first place to use lights and innovate methods to advertise prominently:

Quote:
Coined in 1901 by O.J. Gude, the designer of many prominent advertising displays, to describe the new light show that beckoned along Broadway,The Great White Way is a phrase known worldwide to describe Broadway's profusion of theatres in Times Square. Always glamorous but rocky, theatre and Broadway have a deep relationship stretching back over 100 years.
Times Square History, The History of Times Square by NYCTourist.com

-i doubt there is any other city that started innovate methods to advertise along busy urban interactions before nyc. not any european city or asian city before that. this is purely an american phenomena (not surprising since america is a consumer culture) copied many times over.

-i found why times square doesn't carry on to more blocks:nyc has restriction on the use of advertising signs.

-can you provide the link for the picture?

Last edited by 63estr; 05-25-2009 at 06:16 PM..
 
Old 05-25-2009, 05:31 PM
 
8 posts, read 46,464 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihonKitty View Post
I would say NY has more international tourists. Tokyo has more tourists in general though (japanese and foreign).
hmmm...not to sure about that. tokyo isnt even included on this list of most visited tourist locations.

Best City Tourist Destinations in the World

im sure there is a better article but i dont feel like looking for it for the sake of winning an internet argument.

Last edited by 63estr; 05-25-2009 at 05:55 PM..
 
Old 05-25-2009, 06:39 PM
 
8 posts, read 46,464 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihonKitty View Post
Also unless you can show me a link or something about tokyo copying times square i have no reason to believe it.
just from a random search i can get articles that says shibuya is known as the 'times square of tokyo' in japan. not straight evidence of copying but close.

Last edited by 63estr; 05-25-2009 at 06:55 PM..
 
Old 05-25-2009, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Back home in Kaguawagpjpa.
1,990 posts, read 6,980,372 times
Reputation: 1057
Quote:
Originally Posted by 63estr View Post
times sq is one the seediest areas of nyc.


.
Whoa... Maybe 20 years ago, but that ain't the case now.



Here are some of mine from last December:












Times Sq., changed a lot over the years.

Last edited by Cornerguy1; 05-25-2009 at 08:21 PM.. Reason: do not post copyrighted material
 
Old 05-26-2009, 10:20 AM
 
895 posts, read 2,147,440 times
Reputation: 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by 63estr View Post
^ i was wrong. times square first began to take shape in 1904. that's way before tokyo even developed.

advertising history at times square:

http://www.si.edu/opa/insideresearch/articles/V17_TimesSquare.html

this is an old picture of times square from maybe 1904? from the look of the cars you can tell its around that time:

http://timessquare.com/images/stories/history/images/ts3301.jpg

Times Square at the Crossroads of the World



read about the great white way in times square. advertising history in that location goes back nearly 100 years. its probably the first place to use lights and innovate methods to advertise prominently:



Times Square History, The History of Times Square by NYCTourist.com

-i doubt there is any other city that started innovate methods to advertise along busy urban interactions before nyc. not any european city or asian city before that. this is purely an american phenomena (not surprising since america is a consumer culture) copied many times over.

-i found why times square doesn't carry on to more blocks:nyc has restriction on the use of advertising signs.

-can you provide the link for the picture?
Advertising perhaps but the use of neon lights is less than a century old. Both NY and ginza tokyo both implemented using them widespread around the 50s and 60s. All it is advertising, you have 0 proof of people "copying" times square. Tokyo is extremely dense so people advertised on the buildings. Why wouldnt they? And i dont know if shibuya is the "times square" of Tokyo. I consider shinjuku, harajuku and even ginza more overwhelming than shibuya (or times square) is. Ancient chinese (who invented the restaurant and restuarant menu mind you!) also used avertising on building walls for their restaurants!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 63estr View Post
hmmm...not to sure about that. tokyo isnt even included on this list of most visited tourist locations.

Best City Tourist Destinations in the World

im sure there is a better article but i dont feel like looking for it for the sake of winning an internet argument.
"Tourism in Tokyo is a major industry. In 2006, 4.81 million foreigners and 420 million Japanese visits to Tokyo were made"

"Tourism in New York City includes nearly 47 million foreign and American tourists each year"

It's obvious most of the japanese going to tokyo are for work, there is no real statistic for japanese tourism alone. But without a doubt tokyo is the #1 visited city in japan for japanese for shopping etc.

BTW if you read my post above i clearly said NYC receives more foreign tourists, especially since tokyo is very expensive for non-japanese and its almost impossible for many people from certain countries to get visa to visit japan.

Last edited by Bibi12; 05-26-2009 at 10:41 AM..
 
Old 05-26-2009, 10:39 AM
 
895 posts, read 2,147,440 times
Reputation: 358
Here are more things on tokyo



Top Ten Restaurant Cities in the World 2009
(TOP5)
1. Tokyo
2. Barcelona
3. Copenhagen
4. London
5. New York

Top Ten Restaurant Cities in the World 2008
1. Tokyo
2. Paris
3. New York
4. London
5. Barcelona
6. Sydney
7. Madrid
8. Chicago
9. Stockholm
10. Vancouver

Last edited by Cornerguy1; 05-26-2009 at 07:40 PM.. Reason: copyright violation
 
Old 05-26-2009, 11:41 AM
 
8 posts, read 46,464 times
Reputation: 11
^
-do you have links to a pic of tokyo circa 1904? i doubt tokyo was ever the urban sprawl it is today. i doubt there were even highrises erected in tokyo in 1904. the layout of times sq doesnt look very different from 1904 to today.

-im linking this great summary again on why times sq became important and influential to other cities. ad creators like leigh innovated the idea of erecting monumental, artistic advertisements along busy urban intersections intended to awe the viewer. many cities, like tokyo copied this model for there their busy streets. if youre in denial, im wondering if youve ever been to these cities to have the chance to compare:

Smithsonian: Inside Smithsonian Research: A visual history of Times Square spectaculars



heck, the biggest department store in shibuya is called 'takashimaya times square'!

Quote:
"Tourism in Tokyo is a major industry. In 2006, 4.81 million foreigners and 420 million Japanese visits to Tokyo were made"

"Tourism in New York City includes nearly 47 million foreign and American tourists each year"
-do you have link? this only says a lot of japanese visit tokyo, if the statistics are true. so? tokyo is not even on the list for the most visited cities on the link i gave you or any other list i found on the internet. on one site, times square was said to be the most visited tourist site in the world:

Quote:
Times Square, the most bustling square of New York and most visited tourist attractions in the World(35 million visitors per year) is known for its many Broadway theaters, cinemas and super signs

Last edited by Cornerguy1; 05-26-2009 at 07:42 PM.. Reason: copyright material and links to other forums removed
 
Old 05-26-2009, 12:45 PM
 
895 posts, read 2,147,440 times
Reputation: 358
I said NYC has the most international tourists while i said tokyo has more tourists foreign AND japanese combined. So that doesnt disprove what i said. 35 million figure for times square is americans and foreigners. But i do agree NYC has more international tourists.

And your link about times square still doesnt prove anything. That picture i posted is ginza not shibuya. There is absolute no proof that tokyo districts took the idea from times square. It's simple, large japanese companies wanted to advertise their products to the areas with many pedestrians thats it. Shibuya is not the only one, and its definately not the best one. Harajuku, shinjuku in themselves are better. Shibuya is compared to time square because it looks more like times square and the lay out is more similar to times square then the other districts. But if were talking about neon lights and screens shibuya isnt the best in tokyo.

Here is tokyo in 1905. Looks like tokyo had some form of trains even back then lol. I dont know what theyre called in english but i think san francisco still uses this kind today.


Last edited by Cornerguy1; 05-26-2009 at 07:44 PM.. Reason: personal attacks removed
 
Old 05-26-2009, 12:55 PM
 
895 posts, read 2,147,440 times
Reputation: 358
By the way here is my list of pros and cons for each city. Keep in mind i am not from tokyo but im basically the only japanese here. Actually the city that i come from hates tokyo, we are like the "boston" of japan. I would rather there be a thread of osaka vs NYC.

Tokyo -Pros
- Mass transit
- Healthcare
- Crime
- "cleanliness" (japan in general lacks the "ghettoes" that america has but to be fair we have different demographics)
- High tech
- Food

cons
- Expensive (NYC is also expensive but tokyo is definately more expensive)
- While the food is probably the best it is also very expensive. You can get good cheap food but it's only going to be local japanese food.
- Housing (expensive and dense more than NYC)
- Homogenous (while tokyo has every culture present, and restaurants from every culture present tokyo is 99% ethnic japanese). I dont know if this is a real con since this is part of japan but to many americans it is.
- Lack of green space
- TOO BIG, NYC is big but tokyo is ridiculous. Even with the best mass transit system on earth it can still take 1 hour or more just to go to the otherside of the city for work


NYC pros
- Great food while still not being extremely expensive
- Skyscrapers; beng one of the birthplaces of the skyscraper along with chicago. Tokyo also has skyscrapers but they are more spread out and not as tall in general.
- Multi cultural (once again depends on your opinion though most americans see it as a pro)
- Shopping (tokyo has very good shopping but its more expensive)
- Housing (while still very expensive comparing to other american cities, its much much better than tokyo)

Cons
- A bit more dirty (to be honest the clean areas of NYC are better than tokyo while the bad areas of NYC are much worse than tokyos)
- Mass transit; while being one of the best in the US it is not as fast or efficient as tokyos
- Crime ; NY has a very low crime rate compared to other american large cities but its still much higher than tokyos
- Weather (tokyo weather while still being cold and wet at times is warmer than NYC during winter but it depends if you like winter or not)




In general tokyo and japan in general rank in top 10 of human development index (japan at 8 and USA at 15), and our healthcare is ranked in the top 5 (USA was 37 as i recall). And our infrastructure is rated the best or one of the best in the world (mostly due to government spending ridiculous amount of money on infrastructure for no reason), especially our mass transit.



This is all i can think of for now. I personally can name tons of japanese cities better than tokyo, but this thread is about tokyo and NY so for now i have no other choice.
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