U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-11-2012, 07:00 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,502,552 times
Reputation: 11862

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by eskercurve View Post
I'm sure you overlooked the Americas when you were postulating this. And the Japanese are competitive, so they adopted western technology and cultural tones after Perry came. And the Portuguese and Dutch made it abundantly clear they wanted a Christian Western country in the far East. They were right to kick out the foreigners.
I'm also sure you overlooked the words 'Old World' in my first sentence.

Until Commodore Perry Japan was stuck in the Fuedal Age of Shoguns and Lords. After 1855 they began a process of rapid modernization to catch up with Europe. And by 1905, by succeeded by demonstrating their prowess in the Russo-Japanese War.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-11-2012, 11:27 AM
 
3,521 posts, read 4,979,392 times
Reputation: 3504
Never been there - but from what I've heard, Japanese-born ethnic Koreans are still looked down on, and avoided as marriage partners by the "pure" Japanese who regard them as 2nd-class citizens.

Thousands of ethnic Japanese Brazilians immigrated to Japan, a decade or so ago, but then were eventually pressured into returning to Brazil, because their manners and lifestyle seemed too loud and freewheeling for the conservative, orderly native Japanese.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2012, 11:41 AM
Status: "Thinking of the future..." (set 8 days ago)
 
5,283 posts, read 8,065,714 times
Reputation: 4290
I have to ask, why is it important for Japan to become an immigrant nation?

I never understood the importance people give to such status. Everything ends up merging and becoming one giant culture anyway, its only a matter of time. So, what is the big deal about it?

Don't misunderstand me, I live in a very culturally diverse area, but the reality is that the cultural diversity is beginning to mesh together, already producing "culturally exotic" people that are not as culturally exotic as they first appear. In fact, they're quite American. lol This becomes quite evident when you visit their countries of origin and notice that they, the ones living in your area, are not like those from where they came from. They are more like you and me, not the real exotics.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2012, 11:44 AM
Status: "Thinking of the future..." (set 8 days ago)
 
5,283 posts, read 8,065,714 times
Reputation: 4290
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowlane3 View Post
Thousands of ethnic Japanese Brazilians immigrated to Japan, a decade or so ago, but then were eventually pressured into returning to Brazil, because their manners and lifestyle seemed too loud and freewheeling for the conservative, orderly native Japanese.
This is what I'm talking about in my previous post. For example, those Japanese-Brazilians are really just Brazilians. They learned that the hard way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2012, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,956 posts, read 36,235,881 times
Reputation: 9496
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
In the developed world, Japan must stick out as being the least diverse/most homogeneous country (with Scandinavia not too far behind). I'm not saying this is a bad thing: diversity doesn't necessarily make a country better or worse, it just how it is. But given the aging population and Japan's population decline, do you think they will begin to take in more and more non-Japanese to bolster the workforce? I mean I know 94 million is still a large population, but it will be a lot older by then, and they might want more people to support the populace.

I imagine Westerners as much as other Asians might be incorporated...Many Westerners already work there, and a select few probably plan to settle there, if they can. While I'm not sure how hard it is to get a permanent residence visa there, if possible at all, I wonder if the Japanese will ever change it's attitude?

I doubt it will ever become a 'melting' pot like the US or even France, of course, nor am I saying it should. But do you see other nations - say Americans, Koreans, Chinese, Indians - migrating to Japanese in significant numbers and perhaps even forming a permanent, minority American Japanese? Like white European or American Japanese people born in Japan who are raised Japanese, speak the language.etc in the same way there are Japanese Americans?
I've always noticed this continuous pressure by other immigrant-receiving nations to try to 'bully' Japan into being the same.

However, absolutely nowhere else in Asia does that whatsoever. It's interesting that the West expects Japan to be the first and leader of Asian in this regard.

To me, Japan is cool just as it is.

I also don't get why non-Japanese insist that Japan absolutly must have immigrants because of it's aging older population. Why do we insist that all nation's on earth must continously increase their population numbers forever more. That's a disaster waiting to happen. It seems better to just let the older population die out, and then the younger will have more resources and everything else still available to them, without this continously forevermore expanding model.

Regarding a permanant visa, it's not that difficult to do. Work here for 5+ years and get some Japanese down, and you'll probably get it. I've also recently met a black american guy who 'became Japanese' with a Japanese passport, a Japanese name, everything - one step beyond gaining permanant residency. So, while it's unusual, it's not completely impossible either.

That being said, Japan is not an easy country to emigrate to, even if it was open to immigrants. The language with all that kanji, is just absolutely brutal. It's one thing to learn how to speak it, but to learn how to read and write all that Kanji, is a completely other animal altogether.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2012, 10:31 AM
 
Location: In the heights
22,246 posts, read 23,760,468 times
Reputation: 11697
I think the language barrier in and of itself is enough to dissuade this from happening because it just makes it so much harder. English, French, Spanish, Arabic, and Portuguese are languages that are relatively far flung. Japanese is not. Also, the level of English (since it's basically the lingua franca) comprehension in Japan isn't particularly high unlike say the fluency found in many Northern European countries.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2012, 11:15 AM
 
Location: American Expat
2,189 posts, read 4,724,097 times
Reputation: 1876
It's more likely that I somehow manage to jump to the moon.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2012, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Keizer, OR
1,376 posts, read 2,521,324 times
Reputation: 1148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proterra View Post
unless they want to replace their entire workforce with robots...
Funny thing is they're actually doing that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2012, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Macao
15,956 posts, read 36,235,881 times
Reputation: 9496
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
I think the language barrier in and of itself is enough to dissuade this from happening because it just makes it so much harder. English, French, Spanish, Arabic, and Portuguese are languages that are relatively far flung. Japanese is not. Also, the level of English (since it's basically the lingua franca) comprehension in Japan isn't particularly high unlike say the fluency found in many Northern European countries.
Yep, that's how I feel as well.

And with that being said, Japan is more open than people think....however, knowing how to read and write Japanese is essential.

Living here, kanji is absolutely everywhere (the chinese characters). The Japanese themselves even have an extremely difficult time mastering it. There are plenty of kanji they ONLY see in contracts for example. Meaning, it's not something you just pick up like the alphabet, but just plain extremely difficult. Kids start with the hirakata and katakana writing system only until they are into the 3rd grade or 4th grade or so. Than they get into the kanji, which is what you'll everywhere all the time.

Speaking/Listening Japanese is not that hard. It's not easy, but it's not difficult. The Reading/Writing part is just absolutely brutal.

If Japan even remotely considered being an 'immigrant nation', and I don't see any reason they should. I'd imagine they'd have to basically abolish the current writing system altogether. Which, as you can imagine, isn't something that would happen, without some serious serious serious major discussion or imminent drastic need of some kind.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2012, 03:19 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,502,552 times
Reputation: 11862
I don't think anyone is 'pressuring' Japan to become a melting pot, but it is curious why it seems only Western countries that have significant, diverse, immigrant populations. Japan is like the Britain of Asia; it's pop culture is extremely influential throughout Asia and now the world, yet it seems most of this is one way - to many it remains a pretty enigmatic land, closed off to the world.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top