U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-15-2012, 07:40 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,352,353 times
Reputation: 11862

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonsong View Post
This is nothing new between China and Japan, they have been fighting each other for thousands of years, the only difference now is the rest of the world can know what is going on in seconds.
Also, China has always said that all of the land and the sea that is or in the South CHINA sea is theirs and Europeans are the ones that named it the south China sea so now it's like telling a child all their life that this is named after you and when they get older and want what is theirs by name ( not in reality ) they can't have it, what do you think will happen, you'll get a temper tantrum of epic proportions so some thing will have to be done and China knows this and is doing things on the sly and if China really wants the South China Sea and other Islands that are in it then there is only one nation that really stands a chance of trying to stop them and that's the U.S.A. and even then we will need help from every other country so we can all curse and postulate but there really isn't to much any of the countries can do, I say this because my wife tells me that her native country if it goes to war will be a war of all or nothing and we as Americans and some of the other countries are not prepared to go that far,...... China will if pushed.
We, as in all other countries will have to be careful in how we prod and push China to see things our way.
Thousands of years? The closest China even came to invading Japan was the Ming/Mongol attempt to invade which was famous thwarted by a typhoon. China has influenced it's neighbours greatly, including Japan, although yes, in recent centuries they haven't been that friendly. Both nations were very isolated from the rest of the world.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-18-2012, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,779 posts, read 13,349,751 times
Reputation: 11309
Wow, this is one of the most intelligent threads I've ever read on this matter...

Anyways... a few points to note:

- this isn't a new dispute. This has been going on for some time.

- this action was carried out by a group of citizens/activists and doesn't necessarily reflect the opinions of the Chinese government (who may state that its theirs, but have made no attempt to actually "take" the island)

- attempting to take the island would cause an international incident that would not only lead to a potential conflict with Japan, but also the US. If the US is drawn into a conflict in the region, there's a good chance that the South Koreans would be, too; if the South Koreans are drawn in, then the North Koreans will likely try to take action against South Korea. The sort of mess this all would create, over a tiny, unpopulated, and largely worthless island, is not anything that ANY of the above nations want to get involved in. The economic fallout would be crushing on a massive level for all nations involved, and no one wants that.

- the sort of posturing that you see from Chinese netizens over the matter is no different from the posturing you see from Japanese netizens over the matter. Again, private individuals, not governments...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2012, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Quakertown, Pa., USA
388 posts, read 746,329 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Thousands of years? The closest China even came to invading Japan was the Ming/Mongol attempt to invade which was famous thwarted by a typhoon. China has influenced it's neighbours greatly, including Japan, although yes, in recent centuries they haven't been that friendly. Both nations were very isolated from the rest of the world.
Thank you, I had thought I typed hundreds of years, goes to show one must proof read before tapping submit, again thank you for pointing this error out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2012, 10:10 PM
 
15,525 posts, read 13,513,460 times
Reputation: 21203
Just a bunch of hype over nothing, the US defense industry loves it as they can get free reasons why the US needs to spend insanely on defense, while at the same time, the US provides money for China's defense.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2012, 10:12 PM
 
15,525 posts, read 13,513,460 times
Reputation: 21203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone-Ranger View Post
commie russians
Please tell me what command economy controls Russia currently has that would have you make this statement.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-21-2012, 03:02 PM
 
570 posts, read 1,504,391 times
Reputation: 353
a senior U.S. State Department official said that the Diaoyu Islands (referred to as the Senkaku Islands in Japan) fall within the scope of Article 5 of the U.S.-Japan Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security, as the Senkaku Islands have been under the administrative control of the government of Japan since they were returned as part of the reversion of Okinawa in 1972.


How far can you go back in history to determine who own the land? China wasn't really this big before they took alot of Mongol's land. Russia took Mongol's land too.

China's before Mongol invasion.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Xixia-1111.png
http://www.paradoxplace.com/Insights...Khan-BR800.jpg

Yuen Dynasty China(Mongol)

File:Yuen Dynasty 1294 - Goryeo as vassal.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

china now.

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middl...hina_rel96.jpg


At the end, this island should return to Mongol since Mongol claimed it first.

Last edited by spotlesseden; 08-21-2012 at 04:01 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-22-2012, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Moderate conservative for Obama.
833 posts, read 555,990 times
Reputation: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Please tell me what command economy controls Russia currently has that would have you make this statement.

Putin is ex kgb of the highest order, leopards dont change their spots over night (if ever)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-22-2012, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Moderate conservative for Obama.
833 posts, read 555,990 times
Reputation: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Wow, this is one of the most intelligent threads I've ever read on this matter...

Anyways... a few points to note:

- this isn't a new dispute. This has been going on for some time.

- this action was carried out by a group of citizens/activists and doesn't necessarily reflect the opinions of the Chinese government (who may state that its theirs, but have made no attempt to actually "take" the island)

- attempting to take the island would cause an international incident that would not only lead to a potential conflict with Japan, but also the US. If the US is drawn into a conflict in the region, there's a good chance that the South Koreans would be, too; if the South Koreans are drawn in, then the North Koreans will likely try to take action against South Korea. The sort of mess this all would create, over a tiny, unpopulated, and largely worthless island, is not anything that ANY of the above nations want to get involved in. The economic fallout would be crushing on a massive level for all nations involved, and no one wants that.

- the sort of posturing that you see from Chinese netizens over the matter is no different from the posturing you see from Japanese netizens over the matter. Again, private individuals, not governments...
It's one of two problems that keeps the POTUS up at night regarding foreign policy, You'd be an Idiot for overlooking the obvious.

A snipet from time magazine.

[quote]China, however, is the country most likely to have an impact on the presidential campaign. It is the country most often mentioned, with great concern, by Americans I've interviewed in my travels around the U.S. They assume--accurately--that China is cheating, stealing U.S. jobs and manipulating its currency to promote exports. Already, Mitt Romney is attacking Obama for not being tough enough on China's economic aggression, and several White House sources have told me that the President is obsessed with finding an effective response

Read more: What Keeps Obama Up at Night - TIME]

If Romney gets voted president, ill be expecting fireworks, war will come sooner than we think, in the region. I am under no illusions that romney will administer right wing hawks from the highest order to be part of his military assembly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-22-2012, 10:35 AM
 
51,874 posts, read 41,765,307 times
Reputation: 32365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone-Ranger View Post
What makes you think china's gonna be some walkover? they are very well armed in that region of the world, they are nuke capable, acceptable naval fleet (regional if that), sizeable army, they've made allies everywhere mainly those commie russians. I do believe they can and are itching to pawn the japanese if they have their way just to get even.
Any engagement though would be pretty much an air war just like the pacific theatre was.
They'd both wind up strangling each others commerce etc.

The Chinese have numbers but are behind on quality vs. the japanese.
Additionally, the Chinese military is notoriously corrupt, I'd highly question if their on paper strength would translate to real world use.

The bottom line though is that the power-elite in China don't want a war, they are getting rich.
These little dust-ups are often just patriotic displays to distract the people from bad news like the imprisonment of the lady that poisoned the brit.

It also helps thier rep in asia, where pretty much everyone hates Japan and by tweaking them you gain stature and influence in the region.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-22-2012, 10:41 AM
 
51,874 posts, read 41,765,307 times
Reputation: 32365
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Wow, this is one of the most intelligent threads I've ever read on this matter...

Anyways... a few points to note:

- this isn't a new dispute. This has been going on for some time.

- this action was carried out by a group of citizens/activists and doesn't necessarily reflect the opinions of the Chinese government (who may state that its theirs, but have made no attempt to actually "take" the island)

- attempting to take the island would cause an international incident that would not only lead to a potential conflict with Japan, but also the US. If the US is drawn into a conflict in the region, there's a good chance that the South Koreans would be, too; if the South Koreans are drawn in, then the North Koreans will likely try to take action against South Korea. The sort of mess this all would create, over a tiny, unpopulated, and largely worthless island, is not anything that ANY of the above nations want to get involved in. The economic fallout would be crushing on a massive level for all nations involved, and no one wants that.

- the sort of posturing that you see from Chinese netizens over the matter is no different from the posturing you see from Japanese netizens over the matter. Again, private individuals, not governments...
I agree.

There are also disputes involving Russia with both of those nations over northern islands. The Russo Japanese war was about what? 1920ish?

The only point I would possibly question would be that the chinese doing this are private individuals. Especially the comments about netizens when it is well known that China controls their net. By prompting private citizens to do so either directly or subtly China can apply pressure and maintain denial of involvment....which frankly I'm not buying.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top