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Old 05-01-2014, 02:29 AM
 
1,011 posts, read 627,651 times
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an average guy in their 30s with a college degree in SH or BJ typically make about 100k RMB a year. Most households are double income. So that is 200K, which is about 33k USD. China's tax burdent is low, and health care is cheap. more than half of that income goes to payment for mortgages. So why a 500k USD apartment not within their reach?

If you talk about those guys who work for state-owned companies, they normally can make more than 500k RMB per household.

Don't forget there are many expats and Haigui (overseas Chinese who come back to China), who can make a lot, 1 million plus RMB a year. the number is huge in SH or BJ


Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
What does an average guy in SH or BJ make? Don't tell me a typical 30 year old makes $3000+ a month. Something like $1000-1500 is more realistic. Not everyone has a high paying job at PetroChina or CitiBank. Most of the jobs don't pay much.

Not too familiar with Australia, Vancouver's property bubble is huge.
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Old 05-01-2014, 02:33 AM
 
1,011 posts, read 627,651 times
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The same story for Sh or BJ. Rich Chinese from all other parts of China are pouring money into real estate in Shanghai or BEIJing. Why? these cities have the best education, best health care and best bet for their money.

The price in Manhattan is not determined by average income of a NewYorker. So the price in Shanghai is not determined by the locals. It is the same.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Your listed definitely doesn't sound like it's within easy reach of a population given how low the per capita GDP is. Is that really sustainable?

Vancouver, Sydney, Melbourne, etc. are getting real estate prices driven up and it is a bubble which is developing also because of wealthy Chinese wanting to put their finances elsewhere for generally one of two reasons: 1) fast track immigration status 2) diversifying their assets in case something happens at home.

I think the big difference there is that for overseas investors, you generally have to pony up all the money rather than financing it on credit which while still a risk, makes it so the bank that would have to eat those bad loans isn't in the same country as where the speculation is occurring which means the effects of such collapse would have to run a slightly more circuitous route--still doesn't seem sustainable though.
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Old 10-31-2014, 04:07 AM
 
2 posts, read 1,511 times
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At that time Hong Kong People showed no interest in becoming independent territory, nor interest in continuing life under the "stupid gweilo" administration. It was up to them.
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Old 10-31-2014, 04:15 AM
 
2 posts, read 1,511 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi wan spaghetti View Post
If that was true why was British Hong Kong rich and china dirt poor.
While Britain was building a modern world city and financial centre in Hong Kong, china was suffering mass starvation and humiliating collapses
Oh this is easy question so I can't resist answering.
My answer:
China was dirt poor because it was almost truly communist.
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Old 10-31-2014, 08:04 AM
 
5,823 posts, read 10,149,308 times
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To the (young) OP : Hong Kong is already part of China (since the British withdrawal in 1997).
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Old 10-31-2014, 12:38 PM
 
2,557 posts, read 2,176,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
an average guy in their 30s with a college degree in SH or BJ typically make about 100k RMB a year. Most households are double income. So that is 200K, which is about 33k USD. China's tax burdent is low, and health care is cheap. more than half of that income goes to payment for mortgages. So why a 500k USD apartment not within their reach?

If you talk about those guys who work for state-owned companies, they normally can make more than 500k RMB per household.

Don't forget there are many expats and Haigui (overseas Chinese who come back to China), who can make a lot, 1 million plus RMB a year. the number is huge in SH or BJ
What do you mean by an "average" guy? SH and BJ are both megacities each with 20+ million population from all over China. There is no "average" or generic guy when you are in cities with that much diversity of population. I do have friends in their 20s making about 100-200K RMB in Shanghai - typically at foreign owned companies like Siemens or IBM or one of the consulting firms - but that is hardly a truly "comfortable" salary (and they are all Haigui's from America). All of those friends still live with their parents because buying is just out of question even for the well educated white collar workers, not unless your parents contribute a big chunk to your down payment (my friend's family contributed over 1.2 million RMB just to help him get a very modest 2 bed outside the 5th Ring Road in Beijing).

Like Boticelli said, not everyone works for CIC, Sinopec, Bank of China, or Goldman in those cities. The ones who do land those jobs are the extremely lucky few, almost always due to good family connections.

Also, there are many many so-called white collars in BJ and Shanghai who earn less than modest salaries (3500-6000 RMB per month) doing pencil-pusher jobs pigeon-holed in some office or no-name government bureaucracy (let's be honest most low and mid level civil servants in China are grossly under paid, and with the ongoing corruption crackdown, you are not going to see government salaries rise anytime soon).
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Old 10-31-2014, 10:18 PM
 
Location: Taipei
6,773 posts, read 5,116,323 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
What do you mean by an "average" guy? SH and BJ are both megacities each with 20+ million population from all over China. There is no "average" or generic guy when you are in cities with that much diversity of population. I do have friends in their 20s making about 100-200K RMB in Shanghai - typically at foreign owned companies like Siemens or IBM or one of the consulting firms - but that is hardly a truly "comfortable" salary (and they are all Haigui's from America). All of those friends still live with their parents because buying is just out of question even for the well educated white collar workers, not unless your parents contribute a big chunk to your down payment (my friend's family contributed over 1.2 million RMB just to help him get a very modest 2 bed outside the 5th Ring Road in Beijing).

Like Boticelli said, not everyone works for CIC, Sinopec, Bank of China, or Goldman in those cities. The ones who do land those jobs are the extremely lucky few, almost always due to good family connections.

Also, there are many many so-called white collars in BJ and Shanghai who earn less than modest salaries (3500-6000 RMB per month) doing pencil-pusher jobs pigeon-holed in some office or no-name government bureaucracy (let's be honest most low and mid level civil servants in China are grossly under paid, and with the ongoing corruption crackdown, you are not going to see government salaries rise anytime soon).
Ignore him. He has left and he's crazy. No kidding.
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Old 11-01-2014, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,779 posts, read 13,349,751 times
Reputation: 11309
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
What do you mean by an "average" guy? SH and BJ are both megacities each with 20+ million population from all over China. There is no "average" or generic guy when you are in cities with that much diversity of population. I do have friends in their 20s making about 100-200K RMB in Shanghai - typically at foreign owned companies like Siemens or IBM or one of the consulting firms - but that is hardly a truly "comfortable" salary (and they are all Haigui's from America). All of those friends still live with their parents because buying is just out of question even for the well educated white collar workers, not unless your parents contribute a big chunk to your down payment (my friend's family contributed over 1.2 million RMB just to help him get a very modest 2 bed outside the 5th Ring Road in Beijing).

Like Boticelli said, not everyone works for CIC, Sinopec, Bank of China, or Goldman in those cities. The ones who do land those jobs are the extremely lucky few, almost always due to good family connections.

Also, there are many many so-called white collars in BJ and Shanghai who earn less than modest salaries (3500-6000 RMB per month) doing pencil-pusher jobs pigeon-holed in some office or no-name government bureaucracy (let's be honest most low and mid level civil servants in China are grossly under paid, and with the ongoing corruption crackdown, you are not going to see government salaries rise anytime soon).
I think that for some people who take personal pride in national achievements, there's a tendency to set the average at the highest common denominator.

For every couple who are making 20k/mo and saving up to combine that with family help for a new condo, there are twenty who are making a combined 10k/mo and save for a few months to buy a new Xiaomi.
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Old 11-01-2014, 10:23 PM
 
501 posts, read 461,461 times
Reputation: 747
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike8828 View Post
At that time Hong Kong People showed no interest in becoming independent territory, nor interest in continuing life under the "stupid gweilo" administration. It was up to them.
The people of Hong Kong have never had any input into what happened in 1997, nor were they ever consulted. The handover was completely negotiated between Britain and China, with Britain originally wanting Hong Kong to become fully independent but Deng Xiao Ping made it quite clear that independence was not an option.

Here are some meeting notes from the initial negotiations.

http://fc95d419f4478b3b6e5f-3f71d0fe...5A5E8636D8.pdf
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Old 11-01-2014, 10:34 PM
 
Location: Taipei
6,773 posts, read 5,116,323 times
Reputation: 4555
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/28/wo...-50s.html?_r=0

Quote:
But documents recently released by the National Archives in Britain suggest that beginning in the 1950s, the colonial governors who ran Hong Kong repeatedly sought to introduce popular elections but abandoned those efforts in the face of pressure by Communist Party leaders in Beijing.

The documents, part of a batch of typewritten diplomatic dispatches requested by reporters from two Hong Kong newspapers, reveal that Chinese leaders were so opposed to the prospect of a democratic Hong Kong that they threatened to invade should London attempt to change the status quo.

“We shall not hesitate to take positive action to have Hong Kong, Kowloon and New Territories liberated,” Liao Chengzhi, a senior Chinese official in charge of Hong Kong affairs, was reported to have said in 1960, referring to the areas under British administration that would later be returned to China.
Hong Kong could've had democracy during British rule, however China refused to accept that and threatened to invade British HK, which is understandable since nobody with a sane mind would ever return to China if they could decide their own future.
Sadly HKers didn't fight for it back then. If they did, Britain would have agreed. China probably would've invaded, but who knows, it was such a pathetic mess back in the 1950s, so it probably wouldn't after all.
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