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Old 09-24-2012, 09:31 AM
 
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Hong Kong belongs to China. What will happen in the future is unknown.
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:07 PM
 
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2047 is a long ways away. In any situation, HK will not become independent though.
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:06 PM
 
6,726 posts, read 6,617,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glucorious View Post
I don't think many know this, but when the British handed over control in 1997, both sides agreed that Hong Kong would be autonomous until 2047. Well, actually it says this:

So this basically grants Hong Kong its status it currently has until 2047. Seeing how aggravated the Chinese get over some tiny, tiny Islands somewhere in the ocean, I'm thinking they will absorb Hong Kong in 2047, by force if necessary.

The same applies to Macau, but that agreement won't expire until 2049.
I bet you are not Asian. Your mentality is very bizarre.

Hong Kong is officially a part of PRC already, with Chinese military forces protecting it. Why would China government bother to disturb it? What would China gain from that?
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Old 02-06-2014, 04:05 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,278,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
I personally think instead of just handing the place back to China the British should have conducted a referendum where the people of Hong Kong would have been able to choose what they wanted for their future:
- remain a British Overseas Territory
- become part of China
- become an independent nation

Same should have been done for Macau as well.
.
Hong Kong belongs to china to start with. It is not up for the UK, a declining power to determine what happens to it. The robbed HK from China by force, remember?

On the other hand, I don't think it is wise for HK to antagnize China

1) HK is current prosperity largely depends on its special status as the free port. If vexed, China can easily abandon this preferential policy and build a free port somewhere else, in Shanghai, or Tianjian as it pleases. I am sure HK will lose its glamour within a couple of years.

In fact, I am quite sure Shanghai will surpass HK within the next 20 years.

2) HK residents life largely depends on mainland China, in terms of water and electricity supply, among others. You want China to cut it off? London will air transport all the necessities to HK on a daily basis? China has no obligation to supply HK with anything.

HK never had the chance to be "independent" and never will. And if it does, its future won't be that bright. You talk as if Britain had some claim to HK. It stole the city from China and it was simply time to return, end of story. There is no room for negotiation.
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Old 02-07-2014, 03:07 AM
 
Location: British Hong Kong
64 posts, read 58,742 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Hong Kong belongs to china to start with. It is not up for the UK, a declining power to determine what happens to it. The robbed HK from China by force, remember?

On the other hand, I don't think it is wise for HK to antagnize China

1) HK is current prosperity largely depends on its special status as the free port. If vexed, China can easily abandon this preferential policy and build a free port somewhere else, in Shanghai, or Tianjian as it pleases. I am sure HK will lose its glamour within a couple of years.

In fact, I am quite sure Shanghai will surpass HK within the next 20 years.

2) HK residents life largely depends on mainland China, in terms of water and electricity supply, among others. You want China to cut it off? London will air transport all the necessities to HK on a daily basis? China has no obligation to supply HK with anything.

HK never had the chance to be "independent" and never will. And if it does, its future won't be that bright. You talk as if Britain had some claim to HK. It stole the city from China and it was simply time to return, end of story. There is no room for negotiation.
Possible 5 cent party detected lol.

I will reply point to point.

>Hong Kong belongs to china to start with. It is not up for the UK, a declining power to determine what happens to it. The robbed HK from China by force, remember?

Hong Kong was originally a territory of the Vietnamese, until being taken over by Chinese in the Qin Dynasty. The last 'Chinese' dynasty to control was Qing, and that the PRC has never had authority over any part of HK until 1997.

Also HK was just a dangerous 'lifeless rock' (with no more than few thousands fishermen) when the British came in 1842. If the communists want it back, they should get nothing but the exactly same lifeless island (exculding the reclamated land too).


>1) HK is current prosperity largely depends on its special status as the free port. If vexed, China can easily abandon this preferential policy and build a free port somewhere else, in Shanghai, or Tianjian as it pleases. I am sure HK will lose its glamour within a couple of years.

HK has been a free port since 1842. Chinese business come to trade from HK simply because it's a better place than other cities in mainland, regardless of its political status (Chinese has been trading in HK hundred years before 1997). It's not like the PRC forces those corporation to trade in HK after 1997, they do it voluntarily as a matter of the calculation of cost and profit.

Also as a matter of fact, HK is already losing glamour since 1997 because of the Chinese's intervention in our judicial and legislative system.

> HK residents life largely depends on mainland China, in terms of water and electricity supply, among others. You want China to cut it off? London will air transport all the necessities to HK on a daily basis? China has no obligation to supply HK with anything.

Those are not gift, we buy water (fixed amount set by the PRC, can't buy less even if we reduce water usage) with a absurd price of $2.1 USD per 4540 liters, which's 260 times more expensive than the price for Singapore to buy water from Malaysia (only 0.8 penny). And the trade start from 1960s, not after 1997.

Even Israel and Jordan have a fresh water sales pact, I see not problem why Canton won't continue this profitable international water trade if we get independence.


As for the electricity, not more than a quarter of our power came from the the nuclear reactors in Daya Bay (thanks PRC for building a nuclear plant that close to our city that HK will be like Chernobyl it it goes wrong). The rest are produced locally with coal from international market.

BTW more than 70% of the power generated in Daya Bay go to HK, so if we don't buy energy from them, the power plant will basically lost 70% of its income. So I guess they rely more on us buying than we rely on them selling.


>HK never had the chance to be "independent" and never will. And if it does, its future won't be that bright. You talk as if Britain had some claim to HK. It stole the city from China and it was simply time to return, end of story. There is no room for negotiation.

Britain didn't steal a city, it just took an island (and latter a peninsula), and build a city upon it, which with the help of many honest locales, turn out to be one of the best in the world. I doubt if the PRC will want it back if the British never do anything here.

It's not Britain had a claim on us. It's our right to have a claim on ourselves as of which country (or becoming a country) we should belongs to, which as of the current time, the favour of the majority is not PRC.
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Old 02-07-2014, 03:30 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,951 posts, read 36,201,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glucorious View Post
I don't think many know this, but when the British handed over control in 1997, both sides agreed that Hong Kong would be autonomous until 2047. Well, actually it says this:

So this basically grants Hong Kong its status it currently has until 2047. Seeing how aggravated the Chinese get over some tiny, tiny Islands somewhere in the ocean, I'm thinking they will absorb Hong Kong in 2047, by force if necessary.

The same applies to Macau, but that agreement won't expire until 2049.
That's the agreement. They'll become 'China'.

There aren't any maybes about it, they will just do it. They are China already, they are just under 'Special Administration Regions' with the rights to continue printing their own money, maintaining their own judicial system. But, this is only temporary as a transition from British rule / Portuguese rule to absolute China rule.
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Old 02-07-2014, 03:34 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,951 posts, read 36,201,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelaidean View Post
Perhaps more important than the legal distinctions are the sentiments of the Hong Kong populace. My impression is that there's a fairly strong current of Hong Kong patriotism in the city-state. Even by 2047, I don't see Hong Kongers losing their faith in the liberal democratic model, free markets, free speech and the common law. Any overbearing Chinese intervention would have to deal not only with the international fall-out, but potentially ongoing domestic opposition to a political takeover.
That is VERY true. But, mainlander Chinese are already all over the place in Hong Kong and Macau, despite the locals wishes. That being said, most of the locals were once themselves from the mainland, just a generation or two or more removed.

But, it doesn't matter what HK/Macau people think. They are already set to be fully 'CHINA' after this transition period. There isn't anything they can do legally. Those were agreements with Britain and Portugal respectively, and now officially already Chinese.

They just get to keep all their legal institutions until 2057/2059, but that's about it.
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Old 02-07-2014, 03:36 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,951 posts, read 36,201,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
There are certainly tensions. Native HK'ers are used to a greater degree of freedom and autonomy than mainland Chinese; who can blame them for being afraid of losing all those freedoms?
Those same freedoms are what drives many mainland Chinese to 'move' to HK/Macau as well. They are still very Mainland Chinese though. They bring with them all the values and mindsets of Mainland Chinese. But they come for the money and status and everything else that a city like HK/Macau provides, and ultimately end up 'changing the fabric' little by little, just because of their existance there.
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Old 02-07-2014, 03:41 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,951 posts, read 36,201,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
I personally think instead of just handing the place back to China the British should have conducted a referendum where the people of Hong Kong would have been able to choose what they wanted for their future:
- remain a British Overseas Territory
- become part of China
- become an independent nation

Same should have been done for Macau as well.
That would assume that Britain had those rights and that jurisdiction.

Historically, what was HK/Macau before, was basically China. Britain bullied itself into the territory and basically forced itself on China. Portugual followed suit once they saw that Britain carved itself a territory. China, not having much choice in the matter at the time, reluctantly agreed, and they signed papers allowing it for a set period of time.

That time expired, and international law had already been decided.

It's not exactly like the U.S. government and the Native American Indians where at the end of the day the white people get to decide just for being white. China is too huge, and there are too many Chinese people in HK/Macau. Britain/Portugal, like much of the rest of their colonial strongholds, had to 'go back' to the way it was.

That being said, plenty of Chinese HK people would love to have kept the status quo of remaining British, and I'm sure the same for Macanese. But...all this stuff has already been decided from way back 150 years ago.
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Old 02-07-2014, 03:46 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,951 posts, read 36,201,625 times
Reputation: 9489
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
On the other hand, I don't think it is wise for HK to antagnize China
True. It won't.

For better or worse, Hong Kong is economically dependent on it's own prosperity from China. There really isn't any other way around it.

This argument is like people in the city of say Dallas, Texas...deciding America isn't American enough for them, and they don't get all the rights they want anymore. So they wage war on America, hoping that Dallas remains untouched and prosperous throughout their war with 'mainland America'.

That kind of stuff just won't happen. I think a lot of posters bring illogical thinking in an 'us' and 'them' way, when the reality is that Hong Kong is quite connected and tied in with it's greater region, regardless if it wished to retain its own autonomy or not.
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