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Old 02-07-2014, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Jersey
2,299 posts, read 3,398,939 times
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When rational discussion based on good will and "doing the right thing" fails, force determines the outcome; and the British didn't have the power or will to prevent HK from going back to Chinese control. Look what happened to the Portuguese in Goa. The British did the right thing and came to an amicable agreement with the PRC. I'm not the biggest fan of Tibet being invaded by the PRC, but I believe PRC getting their land back from colonialists was the right thing to do. China might very well be a different country in ~35 years, so HK's "integration" shouldn't be that big of a deal.
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:10 PM
 
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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It already has, for the most part.
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Old 02-07-2014, 11:31 PM
 
1,378 posts, read 1,815,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
That would assume that Britain had those rights and that jurisdiction.

Historically, what was HK/Macau before, was basically China. Britain bullied itself into the territory and basically forced itself on China. Portugual followed suit once they saw that Britain carved itself a territory. China, not having much choice in the matter at the time, reluctantly agreed, and they signed papers allowing it for a set period of time.

That time expired, and international law had already been decided.

It's not exactly like the U.S. government and the Native American Indians where at the end of the day the white people get to decide just for being white. China is too huge, and there are too many Chinese people in HK/Macau. Britain/Portugal, like much of the rest of their colonial strongholds, had to 'go back' to the way it was.

That being said, plenty of Chinese HK people would love to have kept the status quo of remaining British, and I'm sure the same for Macanese. But...all this stuff has already been decided from way back 150 years ago.
I would say no to this. The Macanese are very pro PRC since they have been thriving under PRC rule. The Portuguese were TERRIBLE administrators and under their life, Macau was a crime infested den of vice. The PRC cleaned up Macau and it is far more prosperous under PRC rule than it was under Portuguese rule. This may also be hard to believe but the Portuguese administration was even more corrupt than the PRC administration. The Macanese generally did not respect the Portuguese the way Hong Kongers respected the British and they were eager for PRC rule.
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:59 PM
 
65 posts, read 74,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glucorious View Post
I don't think many know this, but when the British handed over control in 1997, both sides agreed that Hong Kong would be autonomous until 2047. Well, actually it says this:

So this basically grants Hong Kong its status it currently has until 2047. Seeing how aggravated the Chinese get over some tiny, tiny Islands somewhere in the ocean, I'm thinking they will absorb Hong Kong in 2047, by force if necessary.

The same applies to Macau, but that agreement won't expire until 2049.
I will tell you now,not much of Hong Kong like the PRC at all,I was born in HK and the opinion of most of the town is that Hong Kong was better off under British rule
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:18 PM
 
9,873 posts, read 10,125,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glucorious View Post
So this basically grants Hong Kong its status it currently has until 2047. Seeing how aggravated the Chinese get over some tiny, tiny Islands somewhere in the ocean, I'm thinking they will absorb Hong Kong in 2047, by force if necessary.

The same applies to Macau, but that agreement won't expire until 2049.
The laws governing mainland China and the HKSAR may be almost identical in 2047. In any case, China will do nothing to lose this source of revenue.
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,175,100 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
I would say no to this. The Macanese are very pro PRC since they have been thriving under PRC rule. The Portuguese were TERRIBLE administrators and under their life, Macau was a crime infested den of vice. The PRC cleaned up Macau and it is far more prosperous under PRC rule than it was under Portuguese rule. This may also be hard to believe but the Portuguese administration was even more corrupt than the PRC administration. The Macanese generally did not respect the Portuguese the way Hong Kongers respected the British and they were eager for PRC rule.
Macau won't be under PRC rule until 2049. Macau still maintains its own legal system, police force, monetary system, customs policy, and immigration policy.

The Sino-Portuguese Joint Declaration and the Basic Law of Macau stipulate state that it remains self-governing until 2049. So, whatever you are seeing, has nothing to do with PRC rule, and just the way that Macau is governing itself.

During these 50 years between Portugal and China, it's under SAR. Special Administration Region. Meaning, it is officially owned by China, but can continue to govern under it's own rules, however it wants, according to it's own governing-style. Which is basically why you have all the freedoms of press, internet stuff is not blocked like it is in China, and on and on. In short, it's NOT under PRC rule, law, etc. It's currently under Macau rule and operates independently and autonomously from China.

During these 50 years, China's only obligation is to protect it, if there if it becomes under attack, for whatever reason. But, other than that, it runs independently from China/PRC.

Macau is actually capitalizing the fact that it isn't under PRC rule. The universities have all the freedoms and rights that anyone else in the world has, which draws quite a few very educated mainland Chinese to study in Macau/HK so they can a better-rounded education without all of the restrictions on the internet, press, etc.

Last edited by Tiger Beer; 02-08-2014 at 11:03 PM..
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Old 02-09-2014, 12:20 AM
 
Location: British Hong Kong
64 posts, read 58,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Macau won't be under PRC rule until 2049. Macau still maintains its own legal system, police force, monetary system, customs policy, and immigration policy.

The Sino-Portuguese Joint Declaration and the Basic Law of Macau stipulate state that it remains self-governing until 2049. So, whatever you are seeing, has nothing to do with PRC rule, and just the way that Macau is governing itself.

During these 50 years between Portugal and China, it's under SAR. Special Administration Region. Meaning, it is officially owned by China, but can continue to govern under it's own rules, however it wants, exactly as before. Which is basically why you have all the freedoms of press, internet stuff is not blocked like it is in China, and on and on. In short, it's NOT under PRC rule, law, etc. It's currently under Macau rule and operates independently and autonomously from China.

During these 50 years, China's only obligation is to protect it, if there if it becomes under attack, for whatever reason. But, other than that, it runs independently from China/PRC.

It's just the 'theoretical' situation. You have no clue about how the so-called 'one country, two system' actually works.

Macau has been very pro-China, especially after 1966, when the pro-PRC riot forced the Portuguese to compromise and make the declaration for Macau being a Chinese territory under temporary Portugal governance, which paved the way to the handover in 1998. The authority of the Macau SAR as of if it would retain part of the autonomy or just being a puppet of the PRC is purely depends on the level of 'resistance' of the Macau people to PRC's rule and their desire for an autonomy government. As many of them don't really care of these rights, the autonomy of the SAR government is non-existence.

Also even in theory, the power of the SAR is severely limited. The chief executive is at first, not voted by the majority population but by an 'appointed' committee by the PRC. The National People's Congress back in Beijing has the rights to override any judgment by local court, as the SAR has no right to change any part of the basic law (the de facto 'constitution' for the SAR). The immigration policy is also controlled by the PRC and the SAR can't reject unwelcomed immigrants from mainland.

Macau's freedom of press isn't quite satisfactory either, the dominating news paper, the Macao Daily News, which accounted for 80% of the total amount of news paper published in Macau, is overwhelming pro-government and act like a propaganda tool for the PRC. The radio and TV of Macau are funded by the government and as a result lack independence in broadcasting opposite views. Hong Kong media have been blocked from entering Macau during major political events for several times as well.

Last edited by wowu5; 02-09-2014 at 12:40 AM..
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Old 04-20-2014, 06:40 AM
 
164 posts, read 220,068 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Not that this is necessarily representative of the opinions of all, or even a majority of Hong Kongers, but:

Hong Kongers Raise British Flag, Tell Mainlanders to Get Lost chinaSMACK

Hong Kongers Protest Plan Allowing Mainlanders to Visit by Car chinaSMACK

Hong Kong & Mainland China Tensions: Mothers, Tourists, Cars chinaSMACK

There are certainly tensions. Native HK'ers are used to a greater degree of freedom and autonomy than mainland Chinese; who can blame them for being afraid of losing all those freedoms?
The Hong Kong independence is a voice has been heard for a long time since 1997. It is hard to say who are their supporters behind them. But, I want to remind that CCP allow Hong Kong to have its own election in 2017 rather than a pre-1997 colonial era which is governor is appointed by UK government.
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Old 04-20-2014, 06:50 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,268,124 times
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Originally Posted by Mr_Alex View Post
I will tell you now,not much of Hong Kong like the PRC at all,I was born in HK and the opinion of most of the town is that Hong Kong was better off under British rule
so? what's your point? Kenya might be better of under British rule too, doesn't mean it should be. Canada is better off under the US too.

Accept the fact that HK is not a part of Britain any more. The tie has been cut and it is part of China now.

I know HKers still feel somewhat superior now, such sentiment will diminish over time. Once upon a time in the 1970/1980, mainland Chinese adore Hong Kong greatly, all the glamour, the movies/TV shows, fashion, music. Now HK is quickly eclipsed by Shanghai, and the admiration toward Hong Kong has died down very quickly. Now most will view HK and Shanghai almost equally.
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Old 04-20-2014, 06:55 AM
 
164 posts, read 220,068 times
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Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
so? what's your point? Kenya might be better of under British rule too, doesn't mean it should be. Canada is better off under the US too.
Great Point here. It is very hard to say whether Canada will go. It looks like English speaking part of Canada can be absorbed? What will happen at that time?
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