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Old 02-13-2013, 07:52 AM
 
208 posts, read 222,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
It's interesting you mentioned Germany.
Both of them initiated the WWII, and both were extremely brutal, especially towards Jews and Chinese.
There must be something in common. Too much self-discipline often leads to cruelty to other people.

In fact I think the French and Chinese have something in common too.
Almost all of the countries did cruel things in the past. Have you forgotten that US government did kinda wipe out the entire race of Native Americans and enslaved African people for 200 years?
And don't try to comapre Jews and Chinese cos their situations were different. China was simplay a weak country. 1842 Britain fought an "Opium War" against China. Britain won and colonized Hong Kong. During a second war in 1860 a combined British French army attacked Chinese port cities and China signed Beijing treaty with Britain, France and Russia to end the war by paying indemnity and giving up more land. In 1894-95 Japan fought an "First Sino-Japanese War" against China. Japan won and China agreed to give up on its attempts to dominate Korea. After each of these wars the foreigners forced the rulers to sign treaties giving the foreign powers control of China and allowing them special trading rights. China was also divided up into spheres of influence, each falling under one or another foreign power. I believe that the primary responsibility for China’s weakness lied with the Chinese and their government as they failed to undertake the drastic reforms that were necessary to meet the challenge and threat posed by the predatory powers. Keep in mind that it was the era that weak countries which could not stand itself were meant to be colonized.
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:36 AM
 
6,725 posts, read 6,601,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsuleneo View Post
Almost all of the countries did cruel things in the past. Have you forgotten that US government did kinda wipe out the entire race of Native Americans and enslaved African people for 200 years?
And don't try to comapre Jews and Chinese cos their situations were different. China was simplay a weak country. 1842 Britain fought an "Opium War" against China. Britain won and colonized Hong Kong. During a second war in 1860 a combined British French army attacked Chinese port cities and China signed Beijing treaty with Britain, France and Russia to end the war by paying indemnity and giving up more land. In 1894-95 Japan fought an "First Sino-Japanese War" against China. Japan won and China agreed to give up on its attempts to dominate Korea. After each of these wars the foreigners forced the rulers to sign treaties giving the foreign powers control of China and allowing them special trading rights. China was also divided up into spheres of influence, each falling under one or another foreign power. I believe that the primary responsibility for China’s weakness lied with the Chinese and their government as they failed to undertake the drastic reforms that were necessary to meet the challenge and threat posed by the predatory powers. Keep in mind that it was the era that weak countries which could not stand itself were meant to be colonized.
Even by 1940s standards, Germans and Japanese were extremely brutal. What they did were considered immoral even back then. Other western countries did not do exactly the same to their enemies.

No, I'm not comparing Chinese with Jews. I am comparing Nazi Germany with imperial Japan. It was only 70 years ago. I do NOT believe cultures change that fast, so we need to be cautious...

I learned China history in school too (oh, too much!), but I don't see your point by bringing it up. Yes, parts of China were half-colonized. And you think that justifies what Japanese troops did?
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:01 PM
 
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History is less about facts and truth than it is about perception and convenience. It is also much about the idea that "to the victor belongs the spoils." The winners of conflicts are heroes and the losers are relegated to the scrap heap of history, which of course is not always where they belong. To explain the truth about history in a few short paragraphs is, of course, impossible but the attempt provides food for thought.

In the case of China the Qing Dynasty (foreigners themselves) allowed the foreigners to take over the China they had taken from the Han Chinese and were the main cause that China, in the 19th and early 20th century, became known as "the sick man of Asia". Foreign invaders divided up China at their leisure. One of the reasons, often over looked in the West, for Japanese intervention on the Asian continent was not just the idea of building an empire but that intervention was also motivated in great part by the fear that the Western invaders would do the same thing to Japan that they had done to China. This whole fear of the Western Powers began during the early years of the Meiji Era and progressed toward empire building in the 20th century.

In the beginning the Japanese idea of the "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere" Seemed like a good thing but as the military became more and more involved with japanese politics it turned into a race to take what was left of China and build a specifically "Japanese Empire". It was the military's intervention that doomed the movement. Today the same thing is happening but with China at the helm and so far without the need for military intervention. The Chinese have seldom in their history used military invasion as a tactic they prefer economic domination and immigration as their choice of weapons of conquest. This fits perfectly with their system of Confucian ethics in politics. And they seem to be well on the verge of accomplishing this super project. With economic power houses of Japan and South Korea in their stable and the Chinese perchant for business they may well become the world leaders in the near future and this has the Western Powers worried and thinking. It is a far more likely scenario that a world dominated by Islam.

Someone mentioned that we should fear a repeat of the Japanese militaristic conquest of the 20th century. Well today no one trust their neighbor so I suppose far fetched as it may seem people believe that. They also believe that the US needs to be watched because we are a loose cannon who might do just about anything to advance our position. Surely in your travels you have heard the maxim about the bomb expressed in many countries "If they (the US) did it once they are likely to do it again." So while we watch everyone, everyone watches us. What do you expect in this age of rapid communication when some one does something our government tells us not to like. the simple minded "man on the street's" first reaction is to say "Nuke 'em." in a loud voice.
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
21,318 posts, read 21,877,253 times
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I am one that is obsessed with Japan. Can't stop thinking about Japan and the Japanese: I wonder what they are doing now? What would the Japanese do? I think I may even be turning Japanese.

Japan is the one with the pyramids right?
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
1,413 posts, read 3,872,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Even by 1940s standards, Germans and Japanese were extremely brutal. What they did were considered immoral even back then. Other western countries did not do exactly the same to their enemies.

No, I'm not comparing Chinese with Jews. I am comparing Nazi Germany with imperial Japan. It was only 70 years ago. I do NOT believe cultures change that fast, so we need to be cautious...

I learned China history in school too (oh, too much!), but I don't see your point by bringing it up. Yes, parts of China were half-colonized. And you think that justifies what Japanese troops did?

Countries do change a lot in that time, if their government had been turned over. No longer are either countries led by one man. Japan's Emperor has no more power then the Queen of England. I am not worried that either country would try to do what they did in the early 1900s.

The countries we all have to worry about now is China, who is trying to bully its smaller neighbors, North Korea, who cries thinks the world is out to get them, and then threatens other countries until they need food, then they decide to play nice, and Iran who wishes they could bully their smaller neighbors.
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:06 PM
 
1,487 posts, read 2,054,303 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momotaro View Post
Countries do change a lot in that time, if their government had been turned over. No longer are either countries led by one man. Japan's Emperor has no more power then the Queen of England. I am not worried that either country would try to do what they did in the early 1900s.

The countries we all have to worry about now is China, who is trying to bully its smaller neighbors, North Korea, who cries thinks the world is out to get them, and then threatens other countries until they need food, then they decide to play nice, and Iran who wishes they could bully their smaller neighbors.
Actually the emperor didn't have much power. He was really a little bit slow from so much inbreeding. That's is why the present emperor married a person of commoner standing unrelated to the royal family. The man in charge was general Hideki Tojo.... and of course the major industrial family like the Yasuda clan to which Yoko Ono belongs. She didn't marry John Lennon for his money.

One edit: Who is China bullying? Certainly you are not speaking of the problem with Japan and the Senkaku Island thing. I don't see that as China bullying Japan. Japan has island disputes with three countries at this moment. I wish China would bully North Korea a little more. I don't worry about China as a direct threat, at least no a physical threat. Economic threat yes but that's business and it's a "may the best man win." The Chinese have always been interested in money before territory.
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:12 PM
 
6,725 posts, read 6,601,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momotaro View Post
Countries do change a lot in that time, if their government had been turned over. No longer are either countries led by one man. Japan's Emperor has no more power then the Queen of England. I am not worried that either country would try to do what they did in the early 1900s.

The countries we all have to worry about now is China, who is trying to bully its smaller neighbors, North Korea, who cries thinks the world is out to get them, and then threatens other countries until they need food, then they decide to play nice, and Iran who wishes they could bully their smaller neighbors.
You need to learn more about Asian history.
Imperial Japan was not "led by one man" during 1930~1940s. You may argue Nazi Germany was led by Hitler alone, which is largely correct.

China is not trying to "bully its smaller neighbors". Those territory disputes have always been there for decades, if not for centuries, and China took zero military actions so far. You may check a map published by Taiwan to see if those places are claimed to be parts of "Republic of China" too.

On the contrary, Britain attacked Argentina for small islands, and Russia still occupies four islands of Japan. South Korea and Japan have disputes too, and why are you focusing on China only?

Iran? Give me a break. You are fed with US propaganda.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:48 AM
 
208 posts, read 222,560 times
Reputation: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
You need to learn more about Asian history.
China is not trying to "bully its smaller neighbors". Those territory disputes have always been there for decades, if not for centuries, and China took zero military actions so far.

China took zero military actions so far...What the hell are you talking about? You should learn about Korean War, the Battle of Chamdo, Sino-Vietnamese War and countless number of border incursions by the Chinese army. A Chinese Navy recently frigate locked its fire-control radar onto a Japanese vessel, a step usually taken before missiles are launched. China continues to take a very aggressive policy towards other Asian countries on territorial disputes in the South China Sea (Vietnam, the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia, and Brunei) and the East China Sea (Japan). Moreover, China and India continue to take issue with each other over their contested claims to the Aksai Chin and Arunachal. China also maintains another dispute with South Korea over the maritime rights over Socotra rock. No other country on earth has so many disputes about land with its neighbors. That tells you everything you have to know about China's intentions and ambitions.

I can't believe that after listening communist CCP's propaganda for years, there are still people who are believing their propaganda. I know CCP brainwash their people with their stupid manditory "political" classes in school. You should not be so easily deceived if you are educated in the free country.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:18 AM
 
6,725 posts, read 6,601,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsuleneo View Post
China took zero military actions so far...What the hell are you talking about? You should learn about Korean War, the Battle of Chamdo, Sino-Vietnamese War and countless number of border incursions by the Chinese army. A Chinese Navy recently frigate locked its fire-control radar onto a Japanese vessel, a step usually taken before missiles are launched. China continues to take a very aggressive policy towards other Asian countries on territorial disputes in the South China Sea (Vietnam, the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia, and Brunei) and the East China Sea (Japan). Moreover, China and India continue to take issue with each other over their contested claims to the Aksai Chin and Arunachal. China also maintains another dispute with South Korea over the maritime rights over Socotra rock. No other country on earth has so many disputes about land with its neighbors. That tells you everything you have to know about China's intentions and ambitions.

I can't believe that after listening communist CCP's propaganda for years, there are still people who are believing their propaganda. I know CCP brainwash their people with their stupid manditory "political" classes in school. You should not be so easily deceived if you are educated in the free country.
We are talking about territory disputes. Korean war etc. have nothing to do with it. Please have some common sense.
Sino-Vietnamese war happened after Vietnam invaded Cambodia and China did not plan on occupying Vietnam at all.

China is the largest country in Asia surrounded by a huge number of nationalist countries. Of course China has the most disputes. It will be a surprise if not.

I think you are the one who is brainwashed by anti-China propaganda. Those who hate China always deny they are brainwashed, no exception.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:28 AM
 
6,725 posts, read 6,601,290 times
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China is truly too "soft" in terms of political/military actions.
Those who complain about "China bullying small countries" should try having a dispute with the US or Russia!
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