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Old 09-18-2018, 10:55 PM
 
12 posts, read 2,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selurong View Post
Here's a video showing how shipping passes through the Mindanao and Visayas and not, going directly to Luzon.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLg1_dnWXR8

Here's a pic of maritime traffic from space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selurong View Post
Also, for Luzon to be the trade hub between the Malay archipelago and Japan, shipping that originates from Malacca, Sumatra and Java should mostly pass through Brunei before going to Palawan and eventually call port at Luzon...

This is not the case.



In fact it's the opposite. Shipping tends to pass through the Java sea before turning up north into the
Makassar Strait, then passing the Celebes Sea eventually going through the Sulu archipelago.

As you can see, ships coast southern and then eastern Borneo before reaching the Visayas, instead of going to Brunei and coasting Palawan before reaching Luzon.


You can also observe that ships going from Peninsular Malaysia to Japan or China simply pass through the South China Sea, coast through Mainland Southeast Asia or avoid the Philippines altogether...



However, you can observe that what feeds maritime traffic into Luzon isn't coming from Brunei or the South China sea but rather from Mindanao and the Visayas, which funnels shiping coming from Java, passing through Southeast Borneo or the Strait of Makassar.

If Luzon wants to be the export and transhipment hub between the Malay archipelago and Japan, it should embrace the Visayas and Mindanao where most of it's trade and traffic originates from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selurong View Post
Luzon needs Mindanao ALOT. Typhoons often passes through Luzon which periodically destroys our agricultural output there. In contrast, Mindanao doesn't have as much typhoons passing there that's why Mindanao alongside Borneo is called "The land beneath the wind" because storms bypass the area. It's also the reason why Mindanao is called the "Breadbasket of the Philippines". Food prices will spike up if Luzon separates from Mindanao and Visayas. Like it or not, we need each other.

No, it does not need to Luzon can be the bastion of American prescence in South East Asia if it goes independent, Luzon was a center of Trade from Western Malay Archipelago to Japan for centuries then because Visayans are pirates and that was not the case for Saludong aka Luzon who were intermediaries.

Last edited by kazumasa; 09-18-2018 at 11:17 PM..
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Old 09-19-2018, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,521 posts, read 3,107,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazumasa View Post
No, it does not need to Luzon can be the bastion of American prescence in South East Asia if it goes independent, Luzon was a center of Trade from Western Malay Archipelago to Japan for centuries then because Visayans are pirates and that was not the case for Saludong aka Luzon who were intermediaries.

I think it should be a bastion of american presence. Keep the pirates in check.
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Old 09-21-2018, 01:04 AM
 
Location: La Muy Noble Leal Ciudad de Iloilo
190 posts, read 187,896 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazumasa View Post
No, it does not need to Luzon can be the bastion of American prescence in South East Asia if it goes independent, Luzon was a center of Trade from Western Malay Archipelago to Japan for centuries then because Visayans are pirates and that was not the case for Saludong aka Luzon who were intermediaries.

Have you seen the pictures and videos of shipping traffic I posted? Ships from the Western Malay archipelago actually bypasses Luzon entirely since they just coast at Mainland Southeast Asia or just pass through the South China Sea. The traffic that does go to Luzon actually comes from Java, travelling to Southeast Borneo before going to the Sulu Archipelago and then entering the Visayas islands before finally calling port at Luzon.

Luzon needs the Visayas and Mindanao for traffic coming from the Malay Archipelago. I can't believe your ethnocentrism blinds you from this fact.

Also, only Visayans from the Kedatuan of Dapitan were pirates, Visayans from the Kedatuan of Madja-as and the Rajahnate of Cebu were also traders, in fact the Cebu Rajahnate was allied to the Butuan Rajahnate, the oldest trading power in the archipelago and that she had sent tribute to China as early as the 1000s. These two Hindu states in the Philippines even had trade relations with Kutai, another Hindu kingdom but in Southeast Borneo where they get their shipment of sandalwood and spices in exchange for the gold produced by Butuan and the porcelain transhipped by Cebu. In fact, Butuan even had trade relations with Champa, to the south of Vietnam and they were diplomatic rivals for the attention of Chinese trade.

These Visayans were obviously far from being pirates and were also traders, like the states in Luzon.

Last edited by Selurong; 09-21-2018 at 01:12 AM..
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Old 09-21-2018, 01:15 AM
 
Location: La Muy Noble Leal Ciudad de Iloilo
190 posts, read 187,896 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
I think it should be a bastion of american presence. Keep the pirates in check.
What pirates?
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Old 09-24-2018, 01:10 PM
 
3,339 posts, read 2,082,680 times
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the muslims in mindanao are arguably traders because they didnt care about farming..hence when the settlers from Luzon and Visayas arrived, they had all the forests all to the themselves to clear for farming
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Old 09-24-2018, 06:05 PM
 
483 posts, read 193,259 times
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visayan more closer to Indonesian "srivijaya" while Mindanao and Sulu are probably more related to malay malaysia / brunei, I can see from the language and culture that is used exactly the same as malay and deferent with indonesian, except indonesia malay
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Old 09-25-2018, 02:24 AM
 
Location: La Muy Noble Leal Ciudad de Iloilo
190 posts, read 187,896 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by payutenyodagimas View Post
the muslims in mindanao are arguably traders because they didnt care about farming..hence when the settlers from Luzon and Visayas arrived, they had all the forests all to the themselves to clear for farming
Everyone were traders, everyone were also warriors too.

Visayans used to raid China once.
https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/421631/raiding-china

Mindanaoans were warriors, they slave-raided the Visayas once.
https://historyofsulu.wordpress.com/...17/moro-raids/

Luzon (Lucoes) people were even employed as mercenaries and sailors all across Southeast Asia.

When the Portuguese arrived in Southeast Asia in the early 1500s, they witnessed the Lucoes or the Lusung's active involvement in the political and economic affairs of those who sought to take control of the economically strategic highway of the Strait of Malacca. For instance, the former sultan of Malacca decided to retake his city from the Portuguese with a fleet of ships from Lusung in 1525 AD.[13] One famous Lucoes is Regimo de Raja, who was appointed by the Portuguese at Malacca as Temenggung (Jawi: تمڠݢوڠ [14]) or Governor and General.

Pinto noted that there were a number of them in the Islamic fleets that went to battle with the Portuguese in the Philippines during the 16th century. The Sultan of Aceh gave one of them (Sapetu Diraja) the task of holding Aru (northeast Sumatra) in 1540. Pinto also says one was named leader of the Malays remaining in the Moluccas Islands after the Portuguese conquest in 1511.[15] Pigafetta notes that one of them was in command of the Brunei fleet in 1521.[9]

However, the Luções did not only fight on the side of the Muslims. Pinto says they were also apparently among the natives of the Philippines who fought the Muslims in 1538.[15]

On Mainland Southeast Asia, Lusung/Lucoes warriors aided the Burmese king in his invasion of Siam in 1547 AD. At the same time, Lusung warriors fought alongside the Siamese king and faced the same elephant army of the Burmese king in the defence of the Siamese capital at Ayuthaya.[16]

Scholars have thus suggested that they could be mercenaries valued by all sides.[5]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lu%C3%A7%C3%B5es

People had different jobs and different roles, a polity wouldn't just be all warriors, nor all just farmers or all just merchants or just be exclusively of one job. A polity would also have sailors, soldiers, traders and etc. So being a militaristic state doesn't exclude her (the state) being a trading power too.

Also, the Muslims weren't only limited to Mindanao, even Manila was once Muslim too when it was invaded by the Sultanate of Brunei.
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Old 09-25-2018, 02:42 AM
 
Location: La Muy Noble Leal Ciudad de Iloilo
190 posts, read 187,896 times
Reputation: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michiko_shanyang View Post
visayan more closer to Indonesian "srivijaya" while Mindanao and Sulu are probably more related to malay malaysia / brunei, I can see from the language and culture that is used exactly the same as malay and deferent with indonesian, except indonesia malay

Yes, that's true, the Visayas is more influenced by Srivijaya and back-migrations from Sumatra and Borneo (Then part of the Empire of Srivijaya), back to the Philippines.



However, that was only true for the first wave of migration. After the Srivijayan back-migration to the Visayas, they were followed with a second wave of people from Sulawesi.



As for Mindanao, their royal families descend from Malaysia...

SULU:

Shari'ful Hashem Syed Abu Bakr, an Arab trader born in Johor (A place in Malaysia), arrived in Sulu from Malacca and established the Sultanate of Sulu by converting its previous ruler, the Hindu king, Rajah Baguinda, to Islam and then marrying his daughter. This sultanate eventually gained great wealth due to its diving for fine pearls.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Sulu

MAGUINDANAO:

The Sultanate of Maguindanao rose to prominence at the end of the 15th century, Shariff Mohammed Kabungsuwan of Johor introduced Islam in the island of Mindanao and he subsequently married Paramisuli, an Iranun princess from Mindanao, and established the Sultanate of Maguindanao

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Maguindanao

The Visayans were influenced by the older Hindu-Buddhist Srivijayans whereas Mindanao people were influenced by later Islamic missionaries from Malaysia.

Albeit, both are related to each other, one is older than the other.
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Old 09-25-2018, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,521 posts, read 3,107,415 times
Reputation: 3363
Its sad that garuda barely survives in the islands of king phillip of spain.


SHould have stayed pagan. Less problems.


focus on science.
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Old 09-26-2018, 10:53 PM
 
621 posts, read 384,191 times
Reputation: 145
Shhh keep your Garuda to your own man.

The islands of Maharlika had already been long independent from Gharhudha. Lol
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