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Old 12-01-2012, 07:27 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,344,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyh View Post
Truth is, Palembang is a Malay homeland (in contrast to Javanese, Achehnese, etc). Malay can be defined in two - Malay race and a Malay ethnic group. Indonesians view themselves as of Malay race (bangsa; broad definition) but of separate ethnic groups (suku).

In Malaysia however, every Indonesian immigrant (whether Bugis, Minangkabau, Javanese, Achehnese) from historic times up to the current age, have all come to identify with the Malay ethnic group.

And the Cambodian Chams (not the majority Khmers) are being known as part of the Malay race (bangsa Melayu).
The idea of a Malay ethnic group is strictly speaking those from northern Sumatra who speak Malay who then migrated to Peninsula Malaysia. The Javanese etc are not Malay, but Austronesian, but are culturally Malay in the sense they speak Malay. The same could be said for Indonesians of Chinese descent who speak Indonesian. The Malaysian concept of Malay, like the idea of Han Chinese, is mostly political.

 
Old 12-01-2012, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Charlotte North Carolina
1,527 posts, read 2,324,029 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
It's skin whitening plus the fact they try to stay out of the sun. I imagine a foreigner who stays in the fashion conscious big cities might get that impression but go to the country and you'll see more natural tones. Any innate gender difference is slight.
its the same in the country as well.....women are on average a lighter tone then the men....I have even seen light skinned women in the wet markets out in the countryside..

genes do play apart in it.....people from rural areas tend to be on the malay/mongoloid so its not a suprise that you would find a few light skinned indivduals..light skinned has been prized for 1000 years in the Philippines...so its not just fashion...its cultural as well
 
Old 12-01-2012, 08:29 PM
kyh
 
Location: Malaysia & Singapore
383 posts, read 1,061,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
The idea of a Malay ethnic group is strictly speaking those from northern Sumatra who speak Malay who then migrated to Peninsula Malaysia. The Javanese etc are not Malay, but Austronesian, but are culturally Malay in the sense they speak Malay. The same could be said for Indonesians of Chinese descent who speak Indonesian. The Malaysian concept of Malay, like the idea of Han Chinese, is mostly political.
Yes, very potent political tool here. It's always race politics in Malaysia, no matter how much the average Malaysian wants to deny it. That's the biggest detriment to the society and country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ejay1 View Post
its the same in the country as well.....women are on average a lighter tone then the men....I have even seen light skinned women in the wet markets out in the countryside..

genes do play apart in it.....people from rural areas tend to be on the malay/mongoloid so its not a suprise that you would find a few light skinned indivduals..light skinned has been prized for 1000 years in the Philippines...so its not just fashion...its cultural as well
So tell me... How does the 'Malay' definition gets accepted by the Filipino public? How many ethnic groups identify themselves with 'Malay'?

Asian men LOVE fair-skinned ladies. The women take great length (and pain) to keep themselves as fair as white porcelain (whereas the Westerners are heading the other way in droves!). If you're ugly, it's ok; at least you have to be fair.
 
Old 12-01-2012, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Charlotte North Carolina
1,527 posts, read 2,324,029 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyh View Post
Yes, very potent political tool here. It's always race politics in Malaysia, no matter how much the average Malaysian wants to deny it. That's the biggest detriment to the society and country.


So tell me... How does the 'Malay' definition gets accepted by the Filipino public? How many ethnic groups identify themselves with 'Malay'?

Asian men LOVE fair-skinned ladies. The women take great length (and pain) to keep themselves as fair as white porcelain (whereas the Westerners are heading the other way in droves!). If you're ugly, it's ok; at least you have to be fair.

as far as I know...I only know a few fil-ams who identify as malay

most filipinos identify with their ethnic group(waray, illongo, cebuano, kinaraya, cavitena, ilocano)
 
Old 12-01-2012, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Macao
15,943 posts, read 36,139,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejay1 View Post
well the chinese in Philippines very much identifies with China....
Haven't heard of that. Actually, my wife is Filipina, and has some Chinese blood in her family - she's mixed. She recognizes some chinese cultural things, but they are more like cultural traits. Kind of similar to how I might recognize some Irish traits within my family, despite never having lived in Ireland.

I've never heard her, or anyone else in her family, ever talk about China though.

kyh's reference to Malaysian and Chinese made a lot of sense to me. I also have a very good Chinese-Malay, ex-roommate back in San Francisco, who returned back to Penang to live. He strongly identifies as being Chinese and Malaysian, but never heard him talk much about identifying with the country China itself. He definitely identifies with Malaysia, but Chinese culturally. When I visited him in Penang, I really saw another side of Penang, a very Chinese side of it, and it makes completely sense to me, how a person could identify with being Malaysian and culturally Chinese, very easily.
 
Old 12-01-2012, 09:44 PM
kyh
 
Location: Malaysia & Singapore
383 posts, read 1,061,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Haven't heard of that. Actually, my wife is Filipina, and has some Chinese blood in her family - she's mixed. She recognizes some chinese cultural things, but they are more like cultural traits. Kind of similar to how I might recognize some Irish traits within my family, despite never having lived in Ireland.

I've never heard her, or anyone else in her family, ever talk about China though.

kyh's reference to Malaysian and Chinese made a lot of sense to me. I also have a very good Chinese-Malay, ex-roommate back in San Francisco, who returned back to Penang to live. He strongly identifies as being Chinese and Malaysian, but never heard him talk much about identifying with the country China itself. He definitely identifies with Malaysia, but Chinese culturally. When I visited him in Penang, I really saw another side of Penang, a very Chinese side of it, and it makes completely sense to me, how a person could identify with being Malaysian and culturally Chinese, very easily.
Chinese culture is very alive here, unlike in the Phils or Indonesia where most have become acculturated. Being a <insert race here> in Malaysia is an important identity, an affiliation with the community that you grow up with.

We talk about China, its politics, the economic progress every other day, but it's just a matter of table talk. How the development and progress takes place over there has absolutely no impact on our lives here in Malaysia. In fact, most people here (as well as the Singaporeans) have developed a disdain of the Mainlanders due to their general rude, brash, harsh attitudes, unlike the more refined characters you see in the general population of HK, Macau, and Taiwan.

Btw, we are called Chinese Malaysians/Malaysian Chinese; Chinese-Malay is someone who is a mix of Chinese and Malay (but we almost never use this term - as one would generally adopt either one race, usually Malay as his identity).
 
Old 12-02-2012, 01:30 AM
 
3,644 posts, read 8,996,337 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyh View Post
Yes, very potent political tool here. It's always race politics in Malaysia, no matter how much the average Malaysian wants to deny it. That's the biggest detriment to the society and country.


So tell me... How does the 'Malay' definition gets accepted by the Filipino public? How many ethnic groups identify themselves with 'Malay'?

Asian men LOVE fair-skinned ladies. The women take great length (and pain) to keep themselves as fair as white porcelain (whereas the Westerners are heading the other way in droves!). If you're ugly, it's ok; at least you have to be fair.
Malay is used to describe regular, lowland Filipinos. For instance, on the census, the government uses "Christian Malay" & "Muslim Malay" as overall racial groups.
 
Old 12-02-2012, 01:59 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,943 posts, read 36,139,074 times
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I just asked my filipina wife if she considered herself her 'Malay'.

She quickly said 'yes'.

On that note, we also visited Malaysia, and she absolutely loved Malaysia. She doesn't considered herself Malaysian though, but definitely of Malay stock.
 
Old 12-02-2012, 05:37 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,344,192 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejay1 View Post
its the same in the country as well.....women are on average a lighter tone then the men....I have even seen light skinned women in the wet markets out in the countryside..

genes do play apart in it.....people from rural areas tend to be on the malay/mongoloid so its not a suprise that you would find a few light skinned indivduals..light skinned has been prized for 1000 years in the Philippines...so its not just fashion...its cultural as well
I use men and women who both work in the fields as a base comparison, as the women don't have the luxury to keep their skin pale. In both cases, even in northern China where people are supposedly fairier (which, btw, is pretty untrue in my experience. It's more an urban vs rural thing, and people in Shanghai are probably among the fairest of all) the rural and older city folk are all a rich dark brown. The difference between men and women is due to fashion, although there might be a slight tendency for males to be darker it wouldn't be that noticeable.

The Mongoloid race in general is a lot darker than what Westerners might think from Asian actresses or pop stars, look at the Inuit/Eskimo for instance.
 
Old 12-02-2012, 05:39 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,344,192 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Haven't heard of that. Actually, my wife is Filipina, and has some Chinese blood in her family - she's mixed. She recognizes some chinese cultural things, but they are more like cultural traits. Kind of similar to how I might recognize some Irish traits within my family, despite never having lived in Ireland.

I've never heard her, or anyone else in her family, ever talk about China though.

kyh's reference to Malaysian and Chinese made a lot of sense to me. I also have a very good Chinese-Malay, ex-roommate back in San Francisco, who returned back to Penang to live. He strongly identifies as being Chinese and Malaysian, but never heard him talk much about identifying with the country China itself. He definitely identifies with Malaysia, but Chinese culturally. When I visited him in Penang, I really saw another side of Penang, a very Chinese side of it, and it makes completely sense to me, how a person could identify with being Malaysian and culturally Chinese, very easily.
I've heard that many Chinese Filipinos want to downplay their Chinese roots, I mean heck former President Marcos and his wife Imelda were part Chinese, I think some of the Indonesian leaders too and of course the Thai prime ministers were part Chinese, and they even persecuted the Chinese.

Being 'ethnically Chinese' for many is now separate from identifying from the country that is the People's Republic of China. The degree to which one is still Chinese (language, food, customs) varies from country to country. While I have ancestors that left China as late as the early 20th century (and others a lot earlier than that), I'm not culturally Chinese for the most part. There are some in Malaysia and Singapore, however, that would still be culturally mostly Chinese. The 'speak Mandarin' campaign in Singapore was an example to keep alive the Chinese identity while still promoting the Singaporean identity of course. Before independence many Chinese in Singapore had Communist leanings and still identified more with China as their country. Not anymore, they are Singaporean first and foremost.
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