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Old 12-05-2012, 08:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebck120 View Post
The Japanese were threatened by Korea and it decisively chose to rid Korea of its own culture by erassing its total royal bloodline(through assassination) and illegalizing the Korean language. Korea became a vassal state because of mongolias loss and Japan might have freed it but it enslaved it also.. so what's better?
I know Koreans love to claim that Japanese wiped out Korean culture during Japan's annexation of Korea, but there are a lot of histrical documents that contradict their claim.

One typical issue that has been repeatedly claimed by nationalistic Koreans is the total ban of Korean language by the governor general. I can say fairly confidently that anyone can find it's completely untrue by refering to some fundamental primary sources of information, such as The Annual Administration Reports of the Governor General of Korea. How do you explain why the governor general was publishing Hangul news letters up until 1945 if the use of Korean was banned? And here is a "Chosun ilbo" newspaper which was published in 1940, which shows that Hangul was used even during WWⅡ.


When Korea was a vassal state of China, every official document was written in Chinese character. That’s because Korean leaders considered Hangul as “inferior characters”. The first newspaper written in both Chinese character and Hangul was "Kanjyo Shunpo(Seoul Weekly Report)" and it was published by a Japanese educator Yukichi Fukuzawa in 1886.

The first dictionary of Korean language was published by the governor general in 1920.



This is a Hangul textbook published by the governor general in 1930's.


Records of traditional Korean songs were released by Japanese record companies in the late 1930's.


Korean people were allowed to wear traditional Korean clothing during Japan's annexation of Korea.



"A tour of Siam (Thailand) and Korea in the 1930s". This was filmed by James A Fitzpatrick.



Another myth is the total ban of Korean name. If that was the case, how can anyone explain the very existence of Generals Hong Sa-ik(洪思翊) and Yi Un(李恨), former of whom was executed by the Allied Forces after WW2? Both of them used their Korean names throughout their Japanese millitary careers. Also a hero of the Korean War, General Paik Sun-yup(白善燁) was a young Lieutenant in the Manchurian Army, and he kept using his own Korean name.

If the Japanese government had intended to eradicate the Korean culture, they would not have allowed the publication of Korean language dictionaries, books, newspapers, music etc, or Hangul education in schools in the first place.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:12 AM
 
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The Chinese and Japanese look at each other as rivals, with Japan being ahead, yet fearful of when the Chinese will overtake them. And it will happen. China is much more vast, and has way way more people.

I dont think Mainland Chinese really think anything of South Koreans. Koreans have been pretty insignificant for the most part of east asian history. They did not really come onto their until very recently with their smart phones, and I guess their cars.

Despite the fact that the Koreans like to think they hold a high place in the collective minds of other asians, they really arent given that much thought, as they have not had that much interaction or influence.

Japan garnered a bad rep in south east asia because of WW2, but the chinese have been there longer, and are still there economically.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Shaw.
2,226 posts, read 3,145,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebck120 View Post
It's the same with Japan being where its at today due to mass amounts of $ going into it from the Usa after the bombs. If you know history somewhat
I do think I've established I know history at least somewhat. I agree with what you're saying (that's what I meant by Cold War politics). I was just saying that Japan had less far to come because it had done quite a bit on its own in the late 19th/early 20th centuries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebck120 View Post
I disagree... England invested and built up India more then Japan did for Korea yet today its a very different story for those nations. I agree Japan had an influence on Korea's modernization whether humane or not however where it is today compared to 59 years ago is its own will and pride Imo
I actually think we're agreeing. I think Japan built up some industry in the north of Korea. Whatever was built in the south was destroyed during the Korean War. Korea's modernization was done by Koreans with American and Japanese investments helping to finance it. (There's no shame in that. Everyone needs capital).
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Shaw.
2,226 posts, read 3,145,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsuleneo View Post
It was actually Korea's biggest political party named "Iljinhoe(一進會)" that suggested annexation to Japan first. Also the Prime Minister of Korea "Lee Wan Yong" actively helped Japan's annexation of Korea. They knew Korea was too weak and destined to be occupied by one country or another because of its location and inability to defend itself. "Iljinhoe(一進會)" even built the "welcome arch(奉迎門)" for Japan.
Here is a picture of the arch.
If that was Korea's biggest party, it just shows how little political organization there actually was in the nascent Korean Empire. It's hardly accurate to say most Koreans wanted to be annexed. Even after the annexation, the educational "reforms" were completely unwanted. Japan took Korea in military expansion. Anything short of saying that is historical revisionism.

(I'm not saying Japan was worse than any of the European powers, just to make that clear).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsuleneo View Post
I know Koreans love to claim that Japanese wiped out Korean culture during Japan's annexation of Korea, but there are a lot of histrical documents that contradict their claim.

One typical issue that has been repeatedly claimed by nationalistic Koreans is the total ban of Korean language by the governor general. I can say fairly confidently that anyone can find it's completely untrue by refering to some fundamental primary sources of information, such as The Annual Administration Reports of the Governor General of Korea. How do you explain why the governor general was publishing Hangul news letters up until 1945 if the use of Korean was banned? And here is a "Chosun ilbo" newspaper which was published in 1940, which shows that Hangul was used even during WWⅡ.
Korean was banned in schools (I believe it became an elective). It wasn't banned in public. But even that was an overreach that made Japan even less popular.

Quote:
When Korea was a vassal state of China, every official document was written in Chinese character. That’s because Korean leaders considered Hangul as “inferior characters”. The first newspaper written in both Chinese character and Hangul was "Kanjyo Shunpo(Seoul Weekly Report)" and it was published by a Japanese educator Yukichi Fukuzawa in 1886.
That's hardly any different than when all Japanese documents were written in classical Chinese and Hiragana (or Kana in general) were considered "Women's Writing."

Quote:
The first dictionary of Korean language was published by the governor general in 1920.

This is a Hangul textbook published by the governor general in 1930's.

Records of traditional Korean songs were released by Japanese record companies in the late 1930's.
This is hardly a defense of Japan.

Quote:
Korean people were allowed to wear traditional Korean clothing during Japan's annexation of Korea.
Do you realize how low standards you set for Japan is disturbing? Should we congratulate them for treating the Koreans better than the U.S. treated the Native Americans?

Quote:
Another myth is the total ban of Korean name. If that was the case, how can anyone explain the very existence of Generals Hong Sa-ik(洪思翊) and Yi Un(李恨), former of whom was executed by the Allied Forces after WW2? Both of them used their Korean names throughout their Japanese millitary careers. Also a hero of the Korean War, General Paik Sun-yup(白善燁) was a young Lieutenant in the Manchurian Army, and he kept using his own Korean name.

If the Japanese government had intended to eradicate the Korean culture, they would not have allowed the publication of Korean language dictionaries, books, newspapers, music etc, or Hangul education in schools in the first place.
I didn't say the Japanese tried to eradicate Korean culture. But stopping short of genocide is hardly something that should be commended.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Shaw.
2,226 posts, read 3,145,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
I dont think Mainland Chinese really think anything of South Koreans. Koreans have been pretty insignificant for the most part of east asian history. They did not really come onto their until very recently with their smart phones, and I guess their cars.
I don't know about the Chinese people, but the CCP leadership certainly gave a lot of thought to the South Koreans. Korea was considered an economic guide to China. Normalization of relations in '92 was a really big deal (the biggest prize since normalization with the United States).
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:05 PM
 
369 posts, read 800,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebck120 View Post
If colonization by a more idustriliazed nation is the answer today to becoming a superior nation than what happens to India via England and Brazil via Portugal(allbeit no longer as powerful).. both those nationals have enormous amounts of natural resources along with manpower
I think the rest of it all boils down to nationalism and availability of external aid.

After being subjugated by the Japanese for 35 years, the Koreans were determined to outpace Japan in almost everything (economy, pop culture, military, etc). So they borrowed Japanese technology and ideas and made it their own (and see where they are now). Also, although they did not like the idea of being separated from North Korea, they knew that capitalism is the only way of catching up with Japan. That's why they gladly accepted Japanese and U.S. investments and financial aid in the aftermath of the Korean War.

And as for why India, a much larger country with more resources, is less rapidly developed than South Korea? The reason lies in the Cold War logic.

After WW2, South Korea was threatened by the communist North, so the U.S. and Japan had to support her financially in order to keep her as a strong bulwark against her communist neighbours.

But India wasn't in any way threatened by communism, so there was no reason to help pump money into India's economic development. The same applies to Brazil.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Charlotte North Carolina
1,527 posts, read 2,328,135 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
The Chinese and Japanese look at each other as rivals, with Japan being ahead, yet fearful of when the Chinese will overtake them. And it will happen. China is much more vast, and has way way more people.

I dont think Mainland Chinese really think anything of South Koreans. Koreans have been pretty insignificant for the most part of east asian history. They did not really come onto their until very recently with their smart phones, and I guess their cars.

Despite the fact that the Koreans like to think they hold a high place in the collective minds of other asians, they really arent given that much thought, as they have not had that much interaction or influence.

Japan garnered a bad rep in south east asia because of WW2, but the chinese have been there longer, and are still there economically.
korea has surpassed japan in media influence in asia

and china is about to overtake everyone in asia now they have their cash cow in africa
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:53 PM
 
6,227 posts, read 6,379,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgm123 View Post
I don't know about the Chinese people, but the CCP leadership certainly gave a lot of thought to the South Koreans. Korea was considered an economic guide to China. Normalization of relations in '92 was a really big deal (the biggest prize since normalization with the United States).
Do you have any articles I can read about normalizations with South Korea? I know China already began normalizations with Japan more than two decades ago, but I never heard anything about Korea until the chinese economy opened up of course. But in 92, I never heard of it.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:56 PM
 
6,227 posts, read 6,379,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejay1 View Post
korea has surpassed japan in media influence in asia

and china is about to overtake everyone in asia now they have their cash cow in africa
I have not really seen evidence of this. I dont really think any asian country can outpace another because of the language barrier.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:00 PM
 
208 posts, read 222,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgm123 View Post
If that was Korea's biggest party, it just shows how little political organization there actually was in the nascent Korean Empire. It's hardly accurate to say most Koreans wanted to be annexed. Even after the annexation, the educational "reforms" were completely unwanted. Japan took Korea in military expansion. Anything short of saying that is historical revisionism.
Can you even proveide the evidence that most Koreans didn't want to be annexed? The Korean peninsula was a colony/vassal state of Han/Tang/Mongolian/Ming/Manchurian-dominated China for most of its existence, and it could not become a independent state in the first place without Japan's effort. That's historical fact. There was no "Independence war" in Korean history. You can claim that Korea wasnt as bad as it was all you want to - it is you who is arguing against the historical fact that Korea was so weak that it could not fend off even the casual intrusions of the Chinese, Japanese and Russians.

Quote:
Korean was banned in schools (I believe it became an elective). It wasn't banned in public. But even that was an overreach that made Japan even less popular.
Korean was NOT banned in schools. Japan actually provided Hangul education to Korean students, that's why there are Korean dictionaries and Hangul textbooks that were published by the governor general duering the annexation.

Here is the Korean textbook for high school students. You can't deny historical evidence like this.





Quote:
That's hardly any different than when all Japanese documents were written in classical Chinese and Hiragana (or Kana in general) were considered "Women's Writing."
My point is no official document was written in Hangl when Korea was a vassal state of China.

Quote:
This is hardly a defense of Japan

Do you realize how low standards you set for Japan is disturbing? Should we congratulate them for treating the Koreans better than the U.S. treated the Native Americans?

I didn't say the Japanese tried to eradicate Korean culture. But stopping short of genocide is hardly something that should be commended.
It is not my intent to attempt to congratulate Japanese for controling Korea. However, given Korea's weakness and the political climate of the time (largely created by Korea's rulers), it is understandable that Korea would fall under the control of another country, which just happened to be Japan.

I also dispute Korean claim that Japan plundered Korea and was a disaster for the living standards, health, and education of the Korean people. Objectively, all these things were greatly improved under Japanese rule. In my impression, Koreans tend to evade the responsibility of their own by pretending to be total victims of "evil Japanese", and anything that disagrees with their view is called "historical revisionism". Accepting facts doesn't mean glorifying Japanese annexation of Korea. Pity that some can be so irrationally anti-Japanese.
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