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Old 12-05-2012, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Shaw.
2,226 posts, read 3,145,777 times
Reputation: 809

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
Do you have any articles I can read about normalizations with South Korea? I know China already began normalizations with Japan more than two decades ago, but I never heard anything about Korea until the chinese economy opened up of course. But in 92, I never heard of it.
Sorry. I was reading about Sino-Korean relations in Scott Snyder's China's Rise and the Two Koreas, but it doesn't focus on normalization.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Shaw.
2,226 posts, read 3,145,777 times
Reputation: 809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsuleneo View Post
Can you even proveide the evidence that most Koreans didn't want to be annexed? The Korean peninsula was a colony/vassal state of Han/Tang/Mongolian/Ming/Manchurian-dominated China for most of its existence, and it could not become a independent state in the first place without Japan's effort. That's historical fact. There was no "Independence war" in Korean history. You can claim that Korea wasnt as bad as it was all you want to - it is you who is arguing against the historical fact that Korea was so weak that it could not fend off even the casual intrusions of the Chinese, Japanese and Russians.
Korea was periodically independent. But it was a vassal of China for a while and without the Treaty of Shimonoseki, it may have remained one (although, the general decolonization after WWI would have probably led to it considering China's weakness). However, the onus is on you to show that most Koreans wanted to be annexed. I point to opposition to the Japanese rule and the current hatred of many of the Japanese over the history issue to support my side.

Quote:
Korean was NOT banned in schools. Japan actually provided Hangul education to Korean students, that's why there are Korean dictionaries and Hangul textbooks that were published by the governor general duering the annexation.

Here is the Korean textbook for high school students. You can't deny historical evidence like this.
What year was that text published?

[quote]My point is no official document was written in Hangl when Korea was a vassal state of China.[quote]

Couldn't this be argued as evidence of the Japanese trying to separate the Korean's from their Chinese cultural connection?

Quote:
It is not my intent to attempt to congratulate Japanese for controling Korea. However, given Korea's weakness and the political climate of the time (largely created by Korea's rulers), it is understandable that Korea would fall under the control of another country, which just happened to be Japan.
It was more justifiable when Japan turned Korea into a protectorate than when Japan annexed Korea.

Quote:
I also dispute Korean claim that Japan plundered Korea and was a disaster for the living standards, health, and education of the Korean people. Objectively, all these things were greatly improved under Japanese rule. In my impression, Koreans tend to evade the responsibility of their own by pretending to be total victims of "evil Japanese", and anything that disagrees with their view is called "historical revisionism". Accepting facts doesn't mean glorifying Japanese annexation of Korea. Pity that some can be so irrationally anti-Japanese.
I wasn't saying that (the bold).
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:11 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,156 posts, read 23,683,428 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejay1 View Post
korea has surpassed japan in media influence in asia

and china is about to overtake everyone in asia now they have their cash cow in africa
I argue that it isn't yet true overall. There is a large wave of Korean melodramas that are very popular, but Japan's music scene is still very influential as are still there video games and japanese animation.

As for the larger topic of how Koreans were treated under Japanese rule, there needs to be a context for when things happened. Japanese rule in Korea was for several decades and policies often shifted. I agree that the absolutely negative view is off because there are few things that can be quantified in absolutes.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Shaw.
2,226 posts, read 3,145,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
I argue that it isn't yet true overall. There is a large wave of Korean melodramas that are very popular, but Japan's music scene is still very influential as are still there video games and japanese animation.
Yeah, I agree. Korea is trendy now, but Japan is definitely ahead.

Quote:
As for the larger topic of how Koreans were treated under Japanese rule, there needs to be a context for when things happened. Japanese rule in Korea was for several decades and policies often shifted. I agree that the absolutely negative view is off because there are few things that can be quantified in absolutes.
The policies shifted. I would argue it got worse over time.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:26 PM
 
369 posts, read 800,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgm123 View Post
Yeah, I agree. Korea is trendy now, but Japan is definitely ahead.
Although Korean pop culture is in trend now, I just somehow could not shake off the fact in my head that it is merely a replicate of Japanese pop culture.
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:20 AM
 
208 posts, read 222,763 times
Reputation: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgm123 View Post
Korea was periodically independent. But it was a vassal of China for a while and without the Treaty of Shimonoseki, it may have remained one (although, the general decolonization after WWI would have probably led to it considering China's weakness). However, the onus is on you to show that most Koreans wanted to be annexed. I point to opposition to the Japanese rule and the current hatred of many of the Japanese over the history issue to support my side.
If you think that my comments are wrong then provide some historical evidence to refute them. It's your job. Korean history books were written during the dictatorship era and Koreans were not permitted to have academic freedom. The result is that Koreans have a twisted view of history. We know that Korea was a vassal state of China until Japan defeated China in the Sino-Japanese War of 1894-95, but Koreans would never accept that important aspect of their own history because it hurts their sense of cultural identity and national pride and threatens their superiority complex.

Here is the example of ultra-nationalistic education in South Korea. Look at drawings by Korean students.
http://aog.2y.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1550
http://aog.2y.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1558

It wasn’t some crazy nationalistic political group who drew those pictures, but students from a middle school with the consent of their teachers, administration, and municipal government (hence their location in a subway). Of course the principal or teachers of the school didn't take any flak. Try and imagine US students posting pictures of that nature up at the public place...Good Lord. Kids should not be taught to hate, but Korean kids are indeed taught to hate from an early age. It can show people how dangerous nationalism can be. I know many nations use mindless nationalism to promote political agendas. Korea happens to do it in a very blatant and disturbing way however, openly using racism in schools, brainwashing children (I am NOT exaggerating) and directing hate in very childish ways at Japan from its highest ranking officials.

Quote:
What year was that text published?
That textbook was published in 1924.

Quote:
Couldn't this be argued as evidence of the Japanese trying to separate the Korean's from their Chinese cultural connection?
No. Historical documents show that Koreans used a mixed writing system combining Chinese characters(Hanja) and Hangul during the annexation.

Quote:
It was more justifiable when Japan turned Korea into a protectorate than when Japan annexed Korea.
Korea suggested annexation to Japan first. The primary responsibility for Korea’s loss of its independence in 1910 lies with the Koreans and their government as they failed to undertake the drastic reforms that were necessary to meet the challenge and threat posed by the predatory powers.
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:56 AM
 
Location: Charlotte North Carolina
1,527 posts, read 2,328,135 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
I argue that it isn't yet true overall. There is a large wave of Korean melodramas that are very popular, but Japan's music scene is still very influential as are still there video games and japanese animation.

As for the larger topic of how Koreans were treated under Japanese rule, there needs to be a context for when things happened. Japanese rule in Korea was for several decades and policies often shifted. I agree that the absolutely negative view is off because there are few things that can be quantified in absolutes.
lol japanese music scene is a joke amongst Asian demographics...
and japanese video games are losing out to western video games
japanese animation is the only thing taken seriously...but then its mostly kids who watch that in other asian countries
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:59 AM
 
Location: Charlotte North Carolina
1,527 posts, read 2,328,135 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by fellowjoe View Post
Although Korean pop culture is in trend now, I just somehow could not shake off the fact in my head that it is merely a replicate of Japanese pop culture.
kpop culture is more western influenced....it has nothing to do with jpop culture
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:15 AM
 
208 posts, read 222,763 times
Reputation: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejay1 View Post
kpop culture is more western influenced....it has nothing to do with jpop culture
Korea banned the import of Japanese popular culture for years but it was common for many Korean artists to rip off Japanese pop music because they thought no-one would notice. And the term "K-pop" is a copy of "J-pop". You don't see Americans calling American pop music "A-pop".

Although Koreans want to make sure that they abhor Japan, they try to take advantage of the popularity of Japan at every opportunity. There is the French convention named “Japan Expo” which is a dedicated to Japanese culture, and it has been held in Paris every year since 2000. Over 200,000 people attended “Japan Expo” this year.


In 2006, when “Japan Expo” invited 8 Japanese cartoonists as their officia guests, a south Korean publishing company somehow sent 11 Korean cartoonists without any invitation and demanded that the name “Japan Expo” should be changed to “Korea-Japan Expo”or “Asia Expo”. This was ridiculous. But some Koreans have been attending “Japan Expo” every year just to promote Korean products. Here is a pic of the “Korea” booth at “Japan Expo”.


Are any other countries this desperate? If they are proud of their culture then why not just hold their own “Korea Expo” in France. Let’s see if it can attract crowds of 200,000 people.
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:25 AM
 
Location: Charlotte North Carolina
1,527 posts, read 2,328,135 times
Reputation: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsuleneo View Post
Korea banned the import of Japanese popular culture for years but it was common for many Korean artists to rip off Japanese pop music because they thought no-one would notice. And the term "K-pop" is a copy of "J-pop". You don't see Americans calling American pop music "A-pop".

Although Koreans want to make sure that they abhor Japan, they try to take advantage of the popularity of Japan at every opportunity. There is the French convention named “Japan Expo” which is a dedicated to Japanese culture, and it has been held in Paris every year since 2000. Over 200,000 people attended “Japan Expo” this year.


In 2006, when “Japan Expo” invited 8 Japanese cartoonists as their officia guests, a south Korean publishing company somehow sent 11 Korean cartoonists without any invitation and demanded that the name “Japan Expo” should be changed to “Korea-Japan Expo”or “Asia Expo”. This was ridiculous. But some Koreans have been attending “Japan Expo” every year just to promote Korean products. Here is a pic of the “Korea” booth at “Japan Expo”.


Are any other countries this desperate? If they are proud of their culture then why not just hold their own “Korea Expo” in France. Let’s see if it can attract crowds of 200,000 people.
okay you still havent shown any evidence that kpop rips off jpop

your comment just reeks of ignorance if you think kpop copies jpop
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