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Old 04-15-2015, 05:09 AM
 
Location: Singapore
653 posts, read 539,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Their money is everywhere, not in a single basket.
What would happen when the anti-corruption drive by the Zhongnanhai catches up with them?I have heard of what are probably government employees buying real estate, depositing millions on what are supposedly government salaries; would such assets ever return to China if the Zhongnanhai catches up with them?
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Old 04-15-2015, 05:19 AM
 
Location: Singapore
653 posts, read 539,571 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
You had me all figured out, haven't you?

Last time I check Shanghai is still three times the size of Hong Kong. All this HK vs China talk is meaningless, it is like you don't compare Toronto to the entire United States. And if people can talk based on their primarily HK-only exposure, I don't see why I can't talk based on my knowledge of Shanghai? It is not like HK is its own country like Singapore. It never was and never will be.

I dislike HK because it is now trying desperately to be someone non-Chinese, to the extent that they don't want Chinese shoppers, Chinese tourists when countries like the UK, Canada, Greece, Korea are doing all they can to woo Chinese visitors, to the extent someone claims to be living in British HK, how pathetic! and this nostalgic allegiance to the former colonizer is what sickens me (similar to many Taiwanese trying to be more Japanese), not the fact that it doesn't pledge allegiance to the PRC (I don't even). You want to be British again? Too bad that will never happen and blame your parents for not being white and pale. HK is China's experiment, yet some people all of sudden thought they are so superior to everyone else. You know what, the experiment is over, and whatever advantage HK has over cities like Shanghai, it will vanish faster than they think. Ask anyone in Shanghai, who the hell gives a damn about Hong Kong any more except luxury products are cheaper?
I think Shenzhen and Shanghai are fast exceeding Hong Kong in many ways, except for banking and finance.

the mainland Chinese tourists are extremely rich; I have personally seen mainland Chinese tourists, from government employees to businessmen, spent hundreds of thousands of dollars buying 20 LV handbags or buying 10 rolex watches at one go; stories abound of them gambling tens of millions of dollars at casinos. If they are not shopping and spending money at Hong Kong; they may go elsewhere.

However, how long can the shopping spree last? with the arrest of Bo Xilai and Zhou Yongkang, maybe the spending spree would slow down.
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Old 04-15-2015, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,149,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerbalm1985 View Post
I think Shenzhen and Shanghai are fast exceeding Hong Kong in many ways, except for banking and finance.
Hmm....maybe 'on paper'.

But, Hong Kong has so many parks, hiking trails, public spaces, parks, etc.

Shenzhen is incredibly sprawly, polluted, not pedestrian-friendly, highways and interchanges everywhere...its very NOT people-friendly.

Shanghai is better with the public spaces and things to see and do. What I don't like about that city is the pollution is horrible. I'm also not to thrilled about the traffic, the way they drive, the 'Mainlander' feel in general - the guys pulling up their shirts, and rubbing their big bellies everywhere, and on and on.
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Old 04-15-2015, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,149,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerbalm1985 View Post
Hhhm, I think a lot of westerners placed a lot of money in HK and macau; still, I wonder how it would turn out in the long run.
Hmm...maybe? I'm not sure.

I just remember during the hand-over, most HK people were moving money out of this region as fast as they could, and moving it to Vancouver, Los Angeles, and everywhere else that would take it.

No idea at the moment though, as that turn-over period is long-gone. But they way that the Mainland siphons the financial and banking industry and keeps moving it Mainland, it, to me, feels like the Mainland is slowly trying to kill HK.

That being said, HK is still an awesome place. I love EVERYTHING about that city EXCEPT that it's going to be part of the Mainland in 30 years from now.
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Old 04-15-2015, 12:09 PM
 
448 posts, read 499,151 times
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The handover of HK to China agreement reminded people the fate of Shanghai, the most prosperous capitalist city of Asia, after 1949. Some people were leaving HK just in case. It turned out HK is still as capitalist and free, with no change after the handover, although some people disagree on this.

In fact, HK is important for its role in turning China's economy more capitalist. And also as a gateway for international visitors and businesses to China.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
I just remember during the hand-over, most HK people were moving money out of this region as fast as they could, and moving it to Vancouver, Los Angeles, and everywhere else that would take it.

Growth rate, yes.

Many Shanghainese businessmen moved to HK after 1949. Have business in Shanghai again after 1978.

Shenzhen exists because HK exists. Deng Xiaoping would not build Shenzhen in 1978 if HK was not Shenzhen's neighbor right across the river.

HK is still more international than anywhere in Mainland China. Reason is foreigners find it more difficult in Mainland China and most other places in Asia than HK with just reading and speaking English. There are many other things HK is considered better than Mainland China by people not of Chinese ethnicity, I think those people who have been to HK are well aware of them, there is no need to further elaborate them here.

Even the tv channels in HK are very international, with local programmes in Cantonese and English, and many other programmes in Mandarin(Mainland China and Taiwan), English(US, UK, Australia etc), Japanese, French, Korean etc.

And many rich people in HK, Taiwan and other Asian countries are not as keen as the Mainland Chinese on luxury goods, those rich people do not like to show off.

Many developing countries need to go through a period of bad corruption to become better. Taiwan, HK and South Korea were more corrupt in the past.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerbalm1985 View Post
I think Shenzhen and Shanghai are fast exceeding Hong Kong in many ways, except for banking and finance.

the mainland Chinese tourists are extremely rich; I have personally seen mainland Chinese tourists, from government employees to businessmen, spent hundreds of thousands of dollars buying 20 LV handbags or buying 10 rolex watches at one go; stories abound of them gambling tens of millions of dollars at casinos. If they are not shopping and spending money at Hong Kong; they may go elsewhere.

However, how long can the shopping spree last? with the arrest of Bo Xilai and Zhou Yongkang, maybe the spending spree would slow down.

Last edited by lokeung); 04-15-2015 at 12:31 PM..
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Old 04-15-2015, 12:59 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,255,922 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post

Its a popular destination for mainlanders, including Shanghainese, for shopping, nightlife, cultural events, dining... oh, and international banking and business!! These peoples' opinion of the place is borne of reality and not some cartoonish, frustrated nationalism.
that's true but it is more like Los Angelos folks visiting Las Vegas. Doesn't mean they love it and want to live there forever.

Those mainlanders who frequent HK are precisely those who can't afford to go overseas such as London or New York or Barcelona.

I don't know why you keep saying "nationalism". HK is a Chinese city. Successful or not, it belongs to China. I think the two systems thing works pretty well so far.
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Old 04-15-2015, 03:33 PM
 
448 posts, read 499,151 times
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Mandarin may replace Cantonese as the most spoken tongue.

Not only in Macau, which will be the most early one. Also in HK. And most Chinese communities outside of Greater China, for example SE Asia, North America, Europe, Australia, Africa, every continent.

The once most heard Cantonese and Taishanese in Chinatowns around the world are being replaced by Mandarin.

Anyway, I still come across a few people who are interested in learning Cantonese every year. Mostly attracted by the culture of HK such as HK movies.

For those who still want to learn Cantonese, you are learning a Chinese dialect which may become extinct in less than a century.
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Old 04-15-2015, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,149,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Those mainlanders who frequent HK are precisely those who can't afford to go overseas such as London or New York or Barcelona.
Not so sure about that. The ones who are frequenting HK on a very regular-basis, are basically on shopping trips from across the border.

Regardless if they can't afford Barcelona or New York; their purpose isn't to lie on a Barcelona beach or see broadway shows in NYC, their purpose is to buy a bunch of basic necessities like baby powdered milk and other food products, that they don't trust are produced properly on the Mainland side.

That's what the large bulk of them are doing anyway.
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Old 04-15-2015, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,149,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lokeung) View Post
Mandarin may replace Cantonese as the most spoken tongue.

Not only in Macau, which will be the most early one. Also in HK. And most Chinese communities outside of Greater China, for example SE Asia, North America, Europe, Australia, Africa, every continent.

The once most heard Cantonese and Taishanese in Chinatowns around the world are being replaced by Mandarin.

Anyway, I still come across a few people who are interested in learning Cantonese every year. Mostly attracted by the culture of HK such as HK movies.

For those who still want to learn Cantonese, you are learning a Chinese dialect which may become extinct in less than a century.
I'm in Macau, that's a 'false statement' to say that Cantonese will be extinct in less than a century. The Cantonese-speaking region is enormous.

If someone ONLY speaks Mandarin, they won't be able to do much with most locals. Some of the young are studying Mandarin now as a second language; but the mass majority of locals will struggle quite a bit to communicate with Mandarin-speakers in Mandarin.

I was just with a Mandarin-speaking friend who constantly had to switch to English, in Macau, because he just wasn't being understood in Mandarin, and the majority of everyone over 25, was just struggling to reply back.

What is true is that Mandarin is now a course in most K-12 schools now, so young locals are now being exposed to Mandarin. What is also true is that there are Mandarin-speakers living in Macau (who have to go through an enormous amount of paperwork to do so); so if a person is in Macau they can probably find other Mandarin-speakers, or worst case scenario, go to the heavily touristed casino areas like Venetian or Lisboa, and it's a constant shouting fest of Mandarin by many of the mainland tourists. But the massive bulk of local people in Macau will struggle to have to speak Mandarin with a Mandarin-speaking Mainlander.
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Old 04-15-2015, 08:38 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,255,922 times
Reputation: 7578
Quote:
Originally Posted by lokeung) View Post
Mandarin may replace Cantonese as the most spoken tongue.

Not only in Macau, which will be the most early one. Also in HK. And most Chinese communities outside of Greater China, for example SE Asia, North America, Europe, Australia, Africa, every continent.

The once most heard Cantonese and Taishanese in Chinatowns around the world are being replaced by Mandarin.

Anyway, I still come across a few people who are interested in learning Cantonese every year. Mostly attracted by the culture of HK such as HK movies.

For those who still want to learn Cantonese, you are learning a Chinese dialect which may become extinct in less than a century.
Cantonese will not be extinct, but its influence is rapidly declining and is being replaced by mandarin for sure.

Westerners annoy me when they ask the super stupid question: do you speak Cantonese or Mandarin? I usually don't know what to say. Sorry, there is no such Cantonese vs. Mandarin thing in China, because the former is just one of the dozen dialects in China; I am not from Guangdong, why the hell would I speak Cantonese? And I don't speak Mandarin as my native language as well, thank you very much. It is a language I learned in school, and I definitely don't speak Mandarin with my parents or relatives.

For those who learn Cantonese because they love HK movies, feel sad for them. HK movies have been doing downhill for more than a decade, and there is no way back.
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