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View Poll Results: I prefer...
Jakarta 50 43.48%
Manila 65 56.52%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-04-2014, 04:27 AM
 
Location: Pilipinas
282 posts, read 606,772 times
Reputation: 40

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Rajko View Post
Philippines is the 39th largest in the world, with an estimated 2013 gross domestic product (nominal) of $272.207 billion. Primary exports include semiconductors and electronic products, transport equipment, garments, copper products, petroleum products, coconut oil, and fruits.

A newly industrialized country, the Philippine economy has been transitioning from one based on agriculture to one based more on services and manufacturing. Of the country's total labor force of around 40.813 Million the agricultural sector employs close to 32% but contributes to only about 14% of GDP. The industrial sector employs around 14% of the workforce and accounts for 30% of GDP. Meanwhile the 47% of workers involved in the services sector are responsible for 56% of GDP.

Gross international reserves as of October 2013 are $83.201 billion. In 2004, public debt as a percentage of GDP was estimated to be 74.2% but in 2008 it fell to 56.9%. and in 2012, 40.2%. The country is a net importer but it is also a creditor nation.


while
Indonesia has a mixed economy in which both the private sector and government play significant roles. The country is the largest economy in Southeast Asia and a member of the G-20 major economies. Indonesia's estimated gross domestic product (nominal), as of 2012 was US$928.274 billion with estimated nominal per capita GDP was US$3,797, and per capita GDP PPP was US$4,943 (international dollars). The gross domestic product (GDP) is about $1 trillion and the debt ratio to the GDP is 26%. According to World Bank affiliated report based on 2011 data, the Indonesian economy was the world's 10th largest by nominal GDP (PPP based), with the country contributing 2.3 percent of global economic output. The industry sector is the economy's largest and accounts for 46.4% of GDP (2012), this is followed by services (38.6%) and agriculture (14.4%). However, since 2012, the service sector has employed more people than other sectors, accounting for 48.9% of the total labor force, this has been followed by agriculture (38.6%) and industry (22.2%). Agriculture, however, had been the country's largest employer for centuries.

Indonesia ran a trade surplus with export revenues of US$83.64 billion and import expenditure of US$62.02 billion. The country has extensive natural resources, including crude oil, natural gas, tin, copper, and gold. Indonesia's major imports include machinery and equipment, chemicals, fuels, and foodstuffs. And the country's major export commodities include oil and gas, electrical appliances, plywood, rubber, and textiles.

Philippines Land AREA 300,000 km2
Population 99,794,400 plus 12 million outside of the country

GDP (PPP) 2013 estimate
- Total $456.418 billion
- Per capita $4,682
GDP (nominal) 2013 estimate
- Total $272.018 billion
- Per capita $2,790


Indonesia - Land AREA -1,904,569 km2
- POPULATION 237,424,363 plus I guess 6 Million outside of the country


GDP (PPP) 2013 estimate
- Total $1.285 trillion
- Per capita $5,182
GDP (nominal) 2013 estimate
- Total $867.468 billion
- Per capita $3,499

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines
Indonesia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


*******
Now let's test the GDP and PPP.

Let's take a look the figures. Indonesia has the edge in terms of Land area, GDP, PPP, Export. But in terms of Per capital income (meaning per person's income in a yr.) Indonesia's edge is just around 1,000usd despite your almost 3x bigger in TOTAL GDP to Philippines per capita.. what does it mean? something wrong there if u would notice?

Then here are my analogy: 1. such huge population would affect the per capita figure (on a over all percentage ratio), which is the basis of income of common people in every country as of today. 2. Despite of 1 trillion USD GDP, you had an outstanding IMPORT amounting to 62 Billion USD.. While the Philippines had an huge 74.2% of debt (I believe these credit includes those inherited from the previous gov't. in the past) 3. There are some other matrix or areas that are not included or grey spot in every GDP calculation per se.

I tried to analyze other factors that might help the missing gap here...

REMITTANCES (Overseas workers) for example, this factor is totally not within the domestic activity as where GDP had computed, a fresh capital from outside coming in.

Philippines Remittances 2013 Remittances hit record high of $25.1 B in 2013
http://www.philstar.com/business/2014/02/17/1291769/remittances-hit-record-high-25.1-b-2013

while
Indonesia Remittances in foreign exchanges were valued at Rp88.6 trillion in local currency in 2013 when a US dollar was worth Rp12,000 = USD 7.4++B
http://remittancesgateway.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2002: remittances-by-indonesian-migrant-workers-increase-in-2013&catid=72:remittance-flows-information&Itemid=66

GREY SPOT ANSWER NUMBER 1.

******************************

CURRENCY EXCHANGE RATE

1 USD = 43Ph Pesos while 1USD - 11913.00 IDR

1000 Indonesian rupiah = 3.5 Ph pesos.

Then again it has an impact in both countries Total GDP. In the case of Indonesia which IMPORTED a lot, that requires USD payment, a lost in conversion (Forex) happened. While Philippines loses in foreign debt payment which is USD as well.

*****************************
The aspect of labor force

Philippines
- service sector responsible for 56%** of the GDP -(The bulk number of BPO outsourcing industry I believe were include here.) while manufacturing side were just 30% of the GDP.

Indonesia - industry sector @ 46.4%of GDP, while services @ 38.6%* of the GDP same with agri sector.

*Tourism industry (also included in services sector)
Indonesia Tourism revenue during 2012 - USD 9 Billion
while Philippines revenue as of 2013 - USF 4.40 Billion
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/business/02/13/14/nearly-47-m-foreign-tourists-visited-philippines-2013


**BPO Sector (call centers)

Philippines - generated the income of US$13.3Billion in 2013
http://www.oxfordbusinessgroup.com/economic_updates/philippines%E2%80%99-revenues-bpo-set-rise-15-2014

soon to become a major factor in philippine economy and will likely
to exceed @ USD 25 Billion in 2016
http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/index.php/en/news/top-news/20510-it-bpo-industry-to-meet-2016-targets-for-revenues-jobs

while
Indonesia has no figure and probably no industry of this (i just don't know)

*****************************

Manufacturing sector - Indonesia - 46.4% of GDP
in my opinion more on high value output that contributed well in the economy. While Philippines 30% of GDP in my opinion more on semi conductor areas.

*****************************

And Lastly to really test that PPP

I have some very basic comparison on quality of living in Ph and Indonesia. Let's use the common people's economic status as an example, since middle class and rich status were not that affected all in the food chain. Given the overview on top that Indonesia had that 1000 USD advantage/luxury as compared to Philippine PPP...

Test the basic comodities in Manila and Jakarta

Minimum Wages
Philippines 1,515 USD per annum as of Nov. 2012
Indonesia - 1,087 USD per annum as of July 2012
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country

Basic Staple Food
White Rice per kilo
Id - 11,201.09 IRD = .9427 cents (USD)
Ph 38.88 Php = 0.872 cents (USD)

Minimum Fare

Id - 3,500.00 IRD = 0.293 USD
Ph 14.00 Php = 0.321 USD (This on a aircon bus, but MRT is 10php)

Gasoline per liter
Id - 7,713.07 IRD =0.645175 USD
Ph 52.80 Php = 1.211 USD


Basic Room rented per month
Id - 2,681,387.39ird = 224.290011 USD
Ph -10,796.27PHP = 247.621 USD

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_result.jsp?country=Philippines&city=Manila
Cost of Living in Jakarta, Indonesia. Prices in Jakarta. Updated Jul 2014

Now take a closer look at those figures.
Despite the 1000 USD edge of Indonesia PPP, how come that Ph minimum wage was higher?
Super GREY SPOT for me.

The rest were slightly difference in rate exept Gasoline which I believe Indonesia is a producer.

Well that's my study done on the validity and GDP and PPP as applied in this comparison. I therefore conclude the GDP and PPP were not the best formula or barometer in measuring economic and peoples income and capacity. It's about the basic of earnings and currency power would do for me.. thanks.

 
Old 07-04-2014, 04:34 AM
 
621 posts, read 383,659 times
Reputation: 145
^Great review!

Personally, I think though not quite that far Manila is still ahead of Jakarta.

Some images from Manila.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crossbonekafromSSC View Post




























 
Old 07-04-2014, 04:41 AM
 
621 posts, read 383,659 times
Reputation: 145
To do a balance equation, the common images from a not-so luxurious districts in the city of Manila. I also want to see similar images from Jakarta from the high-end to the common crowds just for constructive comparison.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crossbonekafromSSC View Post








































 
Old 07-04-2014, 05:04 AM
 
621 posts, read 383,659 times
Reputation: 145
Greenbelt, Makati
Quote:
Originally Posted by crossbonekafromSSC View Post







 
Old 07-04-2014, 05:13 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,147,342 times
Reputation: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by neMarL View Post
^Great review!

Personally, I think though not quite that far Manila is still ahead of Jakarta.

Some images from Manila.
It's been proven that Indonesia is slightly more modern than Philippines, its also reflected in the capital. The images you posted really didn't make any difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neMarL View Post
To do a balance equation, the common images from a not-so luxurious districts in the city of Manila. I also want to see similar images from Jakarta from the high-end to the common crowds just for constructive comparison.
I would post some images, but there are some policy in here that you can't post copyrighted images unless its yours. So i would just post the link for you to see, if you are interested that is.

Skyline:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/aispro/13812227034
https://www.flickr.com/photos/aispro/13811807944

Hotel Indonesia Roundabout, one of the main landmark in the city:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue_p...9_9/5496431146

Car Free Day Jkt
https://www.flickr.com/photos/joseff/2376455591
https://www.flickr.com/photos/obinflickr/7179645575

Mega Kuningan:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/acencen/9542095876
https://www.flickr.com/photos/acencen/13957709395

SCBD (Sudirman Business District)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/deasdira/14124329084
https://www.flickr.com/photos/38549878@N06/3619649871

Senayan Park
https://www.flickr.com/photos/sigitdjatmiko/5900342389

Central park mall
https://www.flickr.com/photos/sumatris/5849110302
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mario-suwandi/13333290174
https://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisandy1802/5254212792

Taman Anggrek Mall
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7277/...4fdd0698_b.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7015/...a1d7e80b_b.jpg

Grand Indonesia Mall
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7299/...fa0bf603_b.jpg
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2908/...3b971199_b.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7296/...c5628443_b.jpg

Not so luxurious district, Jakarta is pedestrian unfriendly so people only gather on certain points like the oldtown or Monas, most of the highend crowd are in the malls:
Oldtown
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rian_harahap/14179066193
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rian_harahap/14179064983

Monas
https://www.flickr.com/photos/setohidayat/11864896293
https://www.flickr.com/photos/yulianfh/3628594276

Last edited by Goshio22; 07-04-2014 at 05:29 AM..
 
Old 07-04-2014, 05:44 AM
 
Location: Pilipinas
282 posts, read 606,772 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by indoberry View Post
Thanks Rajko

I don't think 500 kms is a good length for a train system. Indonesia's trainsets are continually being renewed with newer trains and I find the executive trains here to be one of the best in Southeast Asia. Java had just finished double-tracking over 1000 kms of line from Jakarta to Surabaya and several train route development is being started in Sumatra, Sulawesi and Borneo.

I don't understand why density of skyscrapers matter? Is having a taller skyscraper means having more development? Focusing on Manila versus Jakarta is a bit problematic to me, because Manila has 40% of the Phils GDP, while Jakarta has a little less than 15% of Indos GDP. Our economy is much more spread out. But we received 18 billion dollars of FDI for two years in a row, while the Phil received the lowest FDI amongst the ASEAN 6 right? Indonesia have a larger industrialized economy. For instance, our car industry produces over 1 million cars every year (next to Thailand in Southeast Asia), while the Phils is the smallest among the ASEAN 5, I think producing only 70.000 cars each year.

I will show some other infrastructural photos and perhaps also some of the skyscraper clusters being developed in Jakarta. Skyscraper development in Jakarta is not centralized into districts, so it looks a bit widespread. But later, I'm a bit busy at the moment.
Hi there Indoberry

As I've said your traditional mass train system is huge as compare to our 121 yr old traditional mass train system, though fleet were modernize already with luxury and business classes.. No comparison on that to your lenght of track and destinations. Now real scenario in the Philippines, Buses here are offering much cheaper fare going to the provinces. Also, even Cebu Pacific domestic airlines killed the passenger shipping business of its SUPER SALE Tickets going to the provinces. Example, the Manila-Naga City route of PNR Train in my approximation is around Php600, while aircon buses is Php500, while DOMESTIC FLIGHT of CEBU PACIFIC of a Boeing aircraft can sometimes @ the rate of Php400 plus terminal fee. Why would I ride on a bus or a train for that 8-10hr route I f I get that with that Supersonic flight for only 40 minutes? just a little add on the terminal fee.. that's the situation here.

Re: skyscraper, we're just want to compare actually the skyline as aesthetically indicator too, as how modern and progressive in a way. But yes, you are right quality of living and survivability comes first.

Okay, Good that were in this real discussion now, now were talking here. M.Manila produced 36% of the total GNP of Ph while Jakarta as you've said produces 15%, meaning balanced in terms of industry around your country right? That's correct coz if you would notice in my comparative analysis... INDONESIA is way ahead in terms of Export materials, and some goods probably. And those industries most likely distributed around INDONESIA, name it, fuel, coal, raw commodities, oil, rubber etc.. While Philippines is little in export, it just some key highlighted output like semi conductors and some fruits..

Now let's discuss the GDP.

Gross domestic product is the market value of all officially recognized final goods and services produced within a country in a year, or over a given period of time. as Wikipedia defined

As a practice the world commonly use this a indicator, being the closest formula to compute in an macro economy.. BUT I'm not a FAN of that GDP as basis to be honest.. I'm not saying I'm that expert in economics, but I know somehow the basic and fundamentals. Every country has a unique Income generating factors and that thing very evident to Philippine economy, is not a traditional economy who heavily rely on export, domestic output, national expenditures, etc.. One thing that saving or blessing should I say for the Philippines is influx of dollars coming from external. this HUGE factor is not included in that GDP. Take a look at my data, Philippines had received USD 25.1 Billion in terms of bank remittances while Indonesia had USD 7.4B as of last year. How can you explain that? That's the remittances alone, what about 2.5 million Filipino-Americans, more or less 4 million Filipino-Foreigners who going back to the Phils. and buying condominiums for themselves as an investment? So that they have properties or home in the metropolis when they're in Manila.. That's silent workhorse of Philippine economy that not all ordinary joe doesn't know.

Another acid test for that GDP, Indonesia has the advantage in that PPP refers to (per persons income) of 1000 USD per annum as compared with Phl. PPP. Now how come Philippine minimum wage is higher as compared to yours? Intriguing isn't? Those were the GREY SPOT as I've said. Daily survival is most likely similar in some ways. But common Filipino clearly has an USD500 to spend more as compared to yours.. So in lay mans term GDP is not that accurate to gauge the real condition of developing nation like us. You may be better interms of figure but in reality common employed Pinoy live better with that edge on per year.

Now, employment rate is another factor, and that's something to address in different perspective.

Re: Automobiles, yes you had the better industry, manufacturing facilities are outnumbered than ours, probable reason you have the lower wages in labor force as compared to us, It's just that logical that they would go to you than to us, that way capitalists can save a lot in terms of labor.

Re FDI Foreign Direct Investment, again your right you have the USD18Billion so to speak, the very reason is that, your foreign policy on FDI is much relax that ours, I believe yours is flexible interms of ownership, properties, taxes, etc. while Philippine foreign policy restricts a lot, something very turn off to those possible investors. Here in the Philippines foreigners are limited to own a business to just up to 40% of the total investment, he/she must have the local partners to cover the remaining 60% meaning majority, another thing, Foreigners are not allowed to buy any land properties in the Philippines, they must have Filipino counterpart in every ventures, or marry a Filipino to have that access granted to own a business, Foreigners don't have the right to engage in any national natural treasure related projects - like mining, quarrying, logging, drilling etc. anything related to natural resources, they must have the Philippine partners as well. That's the very reason why we got the lowest one. this is not fabricated, its just that I've learned it during my economics classes way back then.

But hope is clearer now, as the Philippine congress is ready these days to open and relax that foreign policy in our constitution soon comes next congess opening.

Re: clustering, sure no problem post it. better if you do separate thread for Indonesian updates too. as for everyone's appreciation. Actually if you want a short cut, you could rely on the links I've posted about quantities of skyscrapers of both cities, you could count and you will see what I'm lobbying here.

Hoping I answered your questions with flying colors.. the economics 101.

Last edited by Coach Rajko; 07-04-2014 at 06:08 AM..
 
Old 07-04-2014, 05:55 AM
 
Location: Pilipinas
282 posts, read 606,772 times
Reputation: 40
@neMARL

KUDOS!

Kapatid (brother), we got threads for Manila and Philippines, please feel free to update as well.

Thanks =)
 
Old 07-04-2014, 06:19 AM
 
Location: Pilipinas
282 posts, read 606,772 times
Reputation: 40
@ Goshio22

Boss its kind similar, ours even better in my opinion.

I want to see some kick ass stuff. 7 star hotels, real luxury thing..

The likes of Donald Trump Residences in Makati (to that N.Y. standards)
Designed by some world's famous architects, valuable materials, premium franchises from
west (1st world countries), conceptual flagship projects etc..

I've seen one in Jakarta before The Ritz Carlton Hotel.. Now what else Jakarta can offer?

Last edited by Coach Rajko; 07-04-2014 at 06:42 AM..
 
Old 07-04-2014, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Pilipinas
282 posts, read 606,772 times
Reputation: 40
SOLAIRE MANILA RESORT and CASINO @ Paranaque city, M.M.

Not that High rise though..








credit to solaire manila site, abs cbn online.

Owned by Spanish Filipino Enrique Razon (port operators in asia and latin america)
under bloomberry hotel and resorts. Phase one this investment amounting to USD 1.2 Billion.

Solaire Resort & Casino was managed under a five-year contract by American firm
Global Gaming Asset Management

souce: wiki
 
Old 07-04-2014, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Pilipinas
282 posts, read 606,772 times
Reputation: 40
Or try this ultra modern conceptual resort of Paris Hilton.
Luxury Condominium Resort with Man made white sand resort in the middle of metropolis.







The owner herself.

and off course her Amiga and Amigo who bought a unit..


credit to azure urban resorts residences, pacman, and azure fb
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