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View Poll Results: I prefer...
Jakarta 50 43.48%
Manila 65 56.52%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-04-2014, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,148,875 times
Reputation: 219

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
Manila is doing something about it. They've been clearing the waterways and removing squatters who live right on the waterways. Manila's flooding is mostly due to the clogged waterways and not because of sea level (which is Jakarta's problem). But if they wanted to build a dam to close up Manila Bay, they could easily do that because the opening is so narrow. Jakarta is completely exposed to the sea
Manila is on two bay, cleaning waterway and squartter won't help rising sea water much, the video show how Manila would be affected by flooding and would sunk if nothing is done, while on the other hand Jakarta is already working together with Netherland for it and the sea dam (again please open the link) shows how the city could be covered with the dam, saving it from the doom, while Manila hasn't done anything.

 
Old 07-04-2014, 09:23 PM
 
3,644 posts, read 9,012,935 times
Reputation: 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
Manila is on two bay, cleaning waterway and squartter won't help rising sea water much, the video show how Manila would be affected by flooding and would sunk if nothing is done, while on the other hand Jakarta is already working together with Netherland for it and the sea dam (again please open the link) shows how the city could be covered with the dam, saving it from the doom, while Manila hasn't done anything.
Dont pay attention to the whole video. Any sea level rise above 2 meters is unlikely to happen in our lifetimes. So just compare the sea level rise at 2 meters in Jakarta to that of Manila. Much of the city is underwater in Jakarta, but only a very small part of Manila is underwater.

Manila is on one bay, the other body of water is a lake, and it's a very shallow lake. So another solution would be to make the shallow lake deeper which would divert flooding away from the city. And Jakarta is sinking at about 10 centimeters a year, so the skyscrapers and malls are making it worse.

"An expert of environmental engineering, Firdaus Ali, said that Jakarta has the largest land subsidence rate in the world. Averagely, the capital's ground surface is lowering up to 10.8 centimeters per year.

In the North Jakarta, the rate is even more extreme, up to 28 centimeters per year. "It happens along the Jakarta shore,"
Jakarta Sinking Up to 10 cm per Year | Enviro | Tempo.Co :: Indonesian News Portal

Some parts of Manila are also sinking at that rate, but they're not the areas where malls and skyscrapers are, they're the poor parts of the city near the bay.

"He said that in Malabon, some areas have been sinking by 10 centimeters a year and others by as much as one meter in four years."
Metro Manila is sinking — geologist | News | GMA News Online

Like I said, Jakarta's biggest natural issue will be flooding, Manila's will be an earthquake. They have been preparing for it. Just the other day they had a city-wide earthquake drill. And structures built after 1990 are supposed to be earthquake proof to a certain extent. Whether people have been complying with that is another story...
 
Old 07-04-2014, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,148,875 times
Reputation: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
Dont pay attention to the whole video. Any sea level rise above 2 meters is unlikely to happen in our lifetimes. So just compare the sea level rise at 2 meters in Jakarta to that of Manila. Much of the city is underwater in Jakarta, but only a very small part of Manila is underwater.

Manila is on one bay, the other body of water is a lake, and it's a very shallow lake. So another solution would be to make the shallow lake deeper which would divert flooding away from the city. And Jakarta is sinking at about 10 centimeters a year, so the skyscrapers and malls are making it worse.

"An expert of environmental engineering, Firdaus Ali, said that Jakarta has the largest land subsidence rate in the world. Averagely, the capital's ground surface is lowering up to 10.8 centimeters per year.

In the North Jakarta, the rate is even more extreme, up to 28 centimeters per year. "It happens along the Jakarta shore,"
Jakarta Sinking Up to 10 cm per Year | Enviro | Tempo.Co :: Indonesian News Portal

Some parts of Manila are also sinking at that rate, but they're not the areas where malls and skyscrapers are, they're the poor parts of the city near the bay.

"He said that in Malabon, some areas have been sinking by 10 centimeters a year and others by as much as one meter in four years."
Metro Manila is sinking — geologist | News | GMA News Online

Like I said, Jakarta's biggest natural issue will be flooding, Manila's will be an earthquake. They have been preparing for it. Just the other day they had a city-wide earthquake drill. And structures built after 1990 are supposed to be earthquake proof to a certain extent. Whether people have been complying with that is another story...
So if the poor area that sink does that even matter? North Jakarta is Jakarta's poorest part too, with few pockets of the rich, while most of the development takes place in the south. Jakarta's issue is mainly floods, which takes place once a year but the thing is we won't be expecting the city to sink like you keep mentioning. Apart from earthquake Manila also have high risk of the likes of typhoon, the last one was terrible and imagine if it just passed the city of Manila and how many people would die because they live in tin roofed shacks.

Anyhow whether in future or present Manila is still under a threat of being sinking, as the whole video showed. The video also showed that Jakarta won't likely be sunk in any near future.
 
Old 07-04-2014, 09:44 PM
 
3,644 posts, read 9,012,935 times
Reputation: 1798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
So if the poor area that sink does that even matter? North Jakarta is Jakarta's poorest part too, with few pockets of the rich, while most of the development takes place in the south. Jakarta's issue is mainly floods, which takes place once a year but the thing is we won't be expecting the city to sink like you keep mentioning. Apart from earthquake Manila also have high risk of the likes of typhoon, the last one was terrible and imagine if it just passed the city of Manila and how many people would die because they live in tin roofed shacks.

Anyhow whether in future or present Manila is still under a threat of being sinking, as the whole video showed. The video also showed that Jakarta won't likely be sunk in our lifetime.
I didn't say that the poor parts don't matter, but I'm saying that no one is building skycrapers or malls in the areas that are sinking. Parts of Malabon (the poor part that was mentioned) is sinking at 10 cm per year, but no one is building big heavy structures there. The whole city of Jakarta is sinking at 10 cm per year, but clearly there are huge structures being built there right now. And the video didn't take into account that Jakarta is sinking. So if it's sinking 10 cm per year, then it 10 years it will sink by 1 meter, so it will be worse that what the video is showing.

Flooding is not a separate issue from typhoons in Manila. The worst flooding happens when there are typhoons. So I've already been discussing that natural disaster. With Haiyan, it was mainly the storm surge that caused loss of life. Typhoons are usually weaker when they hit Manila because they usually come from the East and have to go over mountains, but Tacloban directly faces the Pacific, so it was much worse than a typhoon is Manila.
 
Old 07-04-2014, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,148,875 times
Reputation: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
I didn't say that the poor parts don't matter, but I'm saying that no one is building skycrapers or malls in the areas that are sinking. Parts of Malabon (the poor part that was mentioned) is sinking at 10 cm per year, but no one is building big heavy structures there. The whole city of Jakarta is sinking at 10 cm per year, but clearly there are huge structures being built there right now. And the video didn't take into account that Jakarta is sinking. So if it's sinking 10 cm per year, then it 10 years it will sink by 1 meter, so it will be worse that what the video is showing.

Flooding is not a separate issue from typhoons in Manila. The worst flooding happens when there are typhoons. So I've already been discussing that natural disaster. With Haiyan, it was mainly the storm surge that caused loss of life. Typhoons are usually weaker when they hit Manila because they usually come from the East and have to go over mountains, but Tacloban directly faces the Pacific, so it was much worse than a typhoon is Manila.
Hmmm North Jakarta biggest structure would be in Pluit area, i can see the effect of rising sea water but the main reason the land sink is because of ground water extraction which no longer happens, so we will see if in 10 year that 1m rising water would took place. The north Jakarta floods often but it wasn't all caused by the sea that much. In recent years the city has been clearing up resevoir to help modesting the flood, it does help by reducing the duration of the flood from 10h to 3h ansd that was when 50% of the resevoir are cleared. The resevoirs and canals system were planned since the Dutch colonial era, but was left neglected atleast until recently.
 
Old 07-04-2014, 10:32 PM
 
15 posts, read 22,235 times
Reputation: 15
to be honest, I hate this useless debate... as usual pinoys are reluctant to accept their own shortcomings... excuse and excuse as always... that is why Singaporeans against your people, because you are always full of excuses and false pride, even when the facts have been provided by international organizations or data officially published by the international governments, you will resist, you still think other people are always behind you in everything, and you are the better one...

just like you, we also have so many flaws, but the different is, we are never embarrassed to admit, just to make sure that we don't repeat the same mistakes and we can correct our mistakes for a better tomorrow...

sorry for generalizing pinoys...

for the Jakarta vs Manila, both cities have their own up and down, so there is no one better...
 
Old 07-04-2014, 10:46 PM
 
96 posts, read 180,138 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavement Pounder View Post
Actually the top 2 are in China. Malaysia's 1 Utama is almost the same size as EDSA and the SM Megamall. Plus the income inequality isn't as glaring as the Phils.
Biggest malls - 3rd, 4rth and 10th spot occupied by Philippines. MOA, the 10th biggest is under expansion so it will surely go higher. Another mall in Cebu Philippies is under construction, which once finished, will be included in the list.

No mall from Indonesia is included. Enough reason for me to say that Philippines is luckier in terms of Malling.

List of largest shopping malls in the world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Old 07-04-2014, 10:49 PM
 
96 posts, read 180,138 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
This is ridiculous, why don't you try Indonesian malls and see how its first class first rather than making another blind statement.



Any source or just blind ignorant statement? those doesn't make anything in Manila any better than Bangkok.



This again? does Manila even do anything about it? i assume not:

Jakarta hides behind the wings of Garuda | News item | Government.nl

The future is brighter for Jakarta, while Manila will sunk into the deep sea if it does nothing.

And do you even know how many volcanoes are there in Java that makes it quiet dangerous location? ohh and there are more risk to typhoon to Manila other than the earthquake.
I used "biggest". Someone used the word "better".

I also used these phrases.

"One of the best"

"Could be SEAs best!"


Just for you to be cleared.

Last edited by 62914; 07-04-2014 at 10:59 PM..
 
Old 07-04-2014, 10:55 PM
 
96 posts, read 180,138 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
This is ridiculous, why don't you try Indonesian malls and see how its first class first rather than making another blind statement.



Any source or just blind ignorant statement? those doesn't make anything in Manila any better than Bangkok.



This again? does Manila even do anything about it? i assume not:

Jakarta hides behind the wings of Garuda | News item | Government.nl

The future is brighter for Jakarta, while Manila will sunk into the deep sea if it does nothing.

And do you even know how many volcanoes are there in Java that makes it quiet dangerous location? ohh and there are more risk to typhoon to Manila other than the earthquake.
Please don't be confused. Manila means the whole Metro Manila (with 638 sq Km. area) and not just Manila as the capital City. Manila (Capital City) has only 37 Sq. Km of land area. It cannot be compared to Jakarta with 740 Sq. Km land area.
 
Old 07-05-2014, 12:31 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,148,875 times
Reputation: 219
^ you mentioned "Makati the largest"

Quote:
Originally Posted by 62914 View Post
Biggest malls - 3rd, 4rth and 10th spot occupied by Philippines. MOA, the 10th biggest is under expansion so it will surely go higher. Another mall in Cebu Philippies is under construction, which once finished, will be included in the list.

No mall from Indonesia is included. Enough reason for me to say that Philippines is luckier in terms of Malling.

List of largest shopping malls in the world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Doesn't matter we have more global retails and restaurant than Philippines in general, and the malls are large enough, do you even see Singapore on the list and yet they become regional shopping center.
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