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Old 02-08-2013, 08:19 PM
 
6,726 posts, read 6,609,353 times
Reputation: 2386

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momotaro View Post
Wow you really do buy into state run media huh? It is by every essential modern definition Communist.

Communism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just because a shark is named a shark, does not mean it is not a fish. Sure it looks different then a normal fish that people think of, but the basis of it's existence is the same.

Communist Party of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The Communist Party of China (CPC), also known as the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), is the founding and ruling political party of the People's Republic of China (PRC). Although nominally it exists alongside the United Front,[2] a coalition of governing political parties, in practice, the CPC is the only party in the PRC,[3] maintaining a unitary government and centralizing the state, military, and media.[4] The legal power of the Communist Party is guaranteed by the national constitution, though due to the Party's Leninist roots, it stands above the law.[4][5] The current party leader is Xi Jinping,[1] who holds the title of General Secretary of the Central Committee."

This is your governments emblem.

I am going to assume you understand the meaning of the emblem.
Do you have any logic?
What is the definition of communism? Answer me directly.
And does China fit the definition?
Please show me. Don't use your "own" opinion.

Many countries in the world are ruled by a single party or a single group, but they are far from communism. They are not democratic either.

In fact communism is a positive or neutral term in many parts of the world.
In Chinese media, communism is definitely a positive term.
But China is NOT a communist country. Admit it.

 
Old 02-08-2013, 08:25 PM
 
6,726 posts, read 6,609,353 times
Reputation: 2386
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
There are also people who visited North Korea and didn't die. What's the point?
What's your point here? Of course it is nice to "visit" North Korea. Many Chinese tourists do that every day.
What were you trying to imply?
 
Old 02-08-2013, 08:32 PM
 
6,726 posts, read 6,609,353 times
Reputation: 2386
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
Any country ruled by a Communist Party without any alternative parties is a communist state to me. It may be defined as communism with Chinese characteristics, but as long as the party does not change its name, who am I to argue that they are fake Communists?
To you? why should we follow your definition? why?

As I said, China has private corporations. China has fee market. China does not allocate resources to everyone. Therefore, China is not communist.

According to Marxism, a communist society has no private properties even.

Of course, China is ruled by one party. It is not a fully democratic country. The power does not come from the people etc.
 
Old 02-08-2013, 09:31 PM
 
1,099 posts, read 1,670,472 times
Reputation: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
What's your point here? Of course it is nice to "visit" North Korea. Many Chinese tourists do that every day.
What were you trying to imply?
You were the one who first brought up that visitors did not die. My news for you is that just because the tourists/visitors were able to make it out alive of North Korea does not mean North Korea is a tourist paradise. I don't know what you were implying by bringing up that visitors from Beijing did not die. I visited Beijing and came out alive, but that does not mean Beijing deserves to have the best reputation among all cities. I also came out alive visiting other cities! I don't know what you were implying at all.
 
Old 02-08-2013, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
1,413 posts, read 3,875,391 times
Reputation: 1425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Do you have any logic?
What is the definition of communism? Answer me directly.
And does China fit the definition?
Please show me. Don't use your "own" opinion.

Many countries in the world are ruled by a single party or a single group, but they are far from communism. They are not democratic either.

In fact communism is a positive or neutral term in many parts of the world.
In Chinese media, communism is definitely a positive term.
But China is NOT a communist country. Admit it.

I provided plenty of information. It is up to you to accept. Please understand we are talking about modern day communism, where economies can thrive and involve private corporations, however much of life is government ran and owned. There is still just a single party, which no others are allowed to run against the party. I am not sure how your media can state anything positive about a government that oppresses its citizens, does not allow free speech, punishes activists who are against the government, including Nobel Prize winners. If you oppose the government you are punished.
 
Old 02-08-2013, 09:48 PM
 
1,099 posts, read 1,670,472 times
Reputation: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
To you? why should we follow your definition? why?

As I said, China has private corporations. China has fee market. China does not allocate resources to everyone. Therefore, China is not communist.

According to Marxism, a communist society has no private properties even.

Of course, China is ruled by one party. It is not a fully democratic country. The power does not come from the people etc.
Yes, to me and to many people because we are only following the definition of the Chinese government. As I said, we are not the ones who named the Communist Party of China. If they say they're Communists, who are we to say that they're not? I am not a citizen of China. And if they say this type of policy is socialism with Chinese characteristics, then so be it. The PRC may not even give me a Chinese visa next time if I bring this up with the people at the embassy/consulate.

There's no one country now that abides by all ideals of Marxism. The closest thing now is probably if you live in a kibbutz. When someone in this forum says that they don't like Beijing because it's in a Communist state, that is somehow similar to saying that they don't like Beijing because it is not in a fully democratic country. Either way, they are entitled to their opinion, and trying to argue the details regarding how Communist it actually is will do nothing to improve Beijing's reputation at all.

I don't know what's the big deal. France has a socialist government now, what's wrong if we call it a socialist state?
 
Old 02-08-2013, 09:50 PM
 
6,726 posts, read 6,609,353 times
Reputation: 2386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momotaro View Post
I provided plenty of information. It is up to you to accept. Please understand we are talking about modern day communism, where economies can thrive and involve private corporations, however much of life is government ran and owned. There is still just a single party, which no others are allowed to run against the party. I am not sure how your media can state anything positive about a government that oppresses its citizens, does not allow free speech, punishes activists who are against the government, including Nobel Prize winners. If you oppose the government you are punished.
So you can't put things in your own words?

Dictatorship =/= communism
The US propaganda machine always tries to confuse you, but you need to be clear.

The original idea of "communism" is to eliminate inequalities. It failed, but that is another topic.
 
Old 02-08-2013, 09:57 PM
 
6,726 posts, read 6,609,353 times
Reputation: 2386
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
Yes, to me and to many people because we are only following the definition of the Chinese government. As I said, we are not the ones who named the Communist Party of China. If they say they're Communists, who are we to say that they're not? I am not a citizen of China. And if they say this type of policy is socialism with Chinese characteristics, then so be it. The PRC may not even give me a Chinese visa next time if I bring this up with the people at the embassy/consulate.

There's no one country now that abides by all ideals of Marxism. The closest thing now is probably if you live in a kibbutz. When someone in this forum says that they don't like Beijing because it's in a Communist state, that is somehow similar to saying that they don't like Beijing because it is not in a fully democratic country. Either way, they are entitled to their opinion, and trying to argue the details regarding how Communist it actually is will do nothing to improve Beijing's reputation at all.

I don't know what's the big deal. France has a socialist government now, what's wrong if we call it a socialist state?
China NEVER called itself a communist country. The US imposed the title on China on purpose.
If you are familiar with China you should have known it.
China still calls itself a socialist country. Everyone is ok with that though it doesn't mean much.

Chinese Communist Party was founded in 1921. At that time, "communism" was a liberal, leftist, revolutionary, and trendy ideology. It's pretty much like the liberals in the US now. They hated inequality and wanted to overthrow the old system.

Many "third world" countries are not democratic, and they hate communism.
 
Old 02-08-2013, 10:02 PM
 
6,726 posts, read 6,609,353 times
Reputation: 2386
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
You were the one who first brought up that visitors did not die. My news for you is that just because the tourists/visitors were able to make it out alive of North Korea does not mean North Korea is a tourist paradise. I don't know what you were implying by bringing up that visitors from Beijing did not die. I visited Beijing and came out alive, but that does not mean Beijing deserves to have the best reputation among all cities. I also came out alive visiting other cities! I don't know what you were implying at all.
Because someone tried to exaggerate the pollution thing.
The pollution is pretty bad and I prefer not to live in such a place, too.

However it is not a gas chamber as someone tends to believe. I lived there for four years and never got any pollution-related disease.
 
Old 02-09-2013, 03:40 AM
 
1,099 posts, read 1,670,472 times
Reputation: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
China NEVER called itself a communist country. The US imposed the title on China on purpose.
If you are familiar with China you should have known it.
China still calls itself a socialist country. Everyone is ok with that though it doesn't mean much.

Chinese Communist Party was founded in 1921. At that time, "communism" was a liberal, leftist, revolutionary, and trendy ideology. It's pretty much like the liberals in the US now. They hated inequality and wanted to overthrow the old system.

Many "third world" countries are not democratic, and they hate communism.
I mostly read US-based media and that means I will go by the US definition most of the time. I do not know why China never calls itself a communist country, and that it calls itself a socialist country. As it is a single-party state with the Communist Party ruling it, I don't see anything wrong with the US "imposing" the communist title to China.

I surely will not claim that I am more familiar with China compared to those who have lived there. But for us outside of China, I don't see the importance of the communist/socialist distinction. I do know there are differences in understanding of what communism is and what socialism is. But again, that discussion is academic. I have visited China and I know enough to make my own judgment on what I like or dislike about it, even if I don't know everything about it. I have also visited China when it was still common to call each other "comrade", and I know it has improved considerably from that time and it certainly feels less "communist" nowadays, if at all. However, I certainly still have no desire to move and live in Beijing or any part of China given its one-party system. I do think that China is full of tourist attractions and for the non-political tourists, it should not matter whether it is a socialist or communist state.
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