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View Poll Results: Which do you prefer?
Indonesia 55 47.41%
Philippines 61 52.59%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-26-2014, 04:11 AM
 
Location: Czech Republic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanjelman7 View Post
There isn't really an "American culture" per se since the United States is a melting pot of cultures which vary from region to region (though it is largely western-European based, which therefore includes Spain) so what exactly is being appreciated? You mean like fast food and television sitcoms? Also, speaking English as a native language does not automatically mean "appreciating American culture" but rather a consequence of being born and raised in the U.S., just like Spanish loan words in the current Filipino language are a consequence of historical colonialism.

In any case, Filipinos who "appreciate American culture" aren't actively trying to promote the English language over Tagalog/Cebuano/Illocano and align itself with the Anglosphere (unlike the respective agenda of Hispanophile Filipinos).

Of course, there is American influence in the Philippines but it is nowhere near as glorified or championed as Spanish influence in the Philippines.
Oh it is. Filipinos Love anything American... As long as it is from America, it is very well appreciated. I guess you are aware about American brands that Filipinos die to have.
Filipinos love English very much, much more than Filipino languages and it is very obvious with young Filipino parents who do NOT speak Filipino to their children ( especially in Manila ). I know quite a few parents who do not want their kids to speak Filipino as English is a social status in the Philippines.
American sounding names is also another American influence.
There are more, but are often ignored because it is more acceptable than Spanish influence.

 
Old 01-26-2014, 04:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermosaa View Post
Oh it is. Filipinos Love anything American... As long as it is from America, it is very well appreciated. I guess you are aware about American brands that Filipinos die to have.
That has more to do with consumerism and materialism, which are western ideals (and not specifically American). The same thing can be said for Filipinos living in Canada/Australia/United Kingdom.

Quote:
Filipinos love English very much, much more than Filipino languages and it is very obvious with young Filipino parents who do NOT speak Filipino to their children ( especially in Manila ). I know quite a few parents who do not want their kids to speak Filipino as English is a social status in the Philippines.
From an objective point of view, English is the "lingua franca" of global business (which Mandarin Chinese is currently threatening) so it would make sense for Filipinos to teach their children English. In other words, it's not necessarily a love of the language but the practicality it provides in terms of future prosperity and success. For example, more and more Korean exchange students are choosing to learn English in the Philippines because it is cheaper to do so over there (and the only way they can do that is if the Philippines maintains its English skills).

Also, the U.S. and Philippines are strong military allies so it's obviously important for the Filipinos to learn English (because the Americans are definitely not going to learn Tagalog/Cebuano/Illocano any time soon).

From the Filipino-American point of view, the reasons are the same as above and also for assimilation reasons (as permanent residents of the U.S., with occasional vacation trips to PI).

Quote:
American sounding names is also another American influence.
That is more a recent development though, and it constitutes a tiny fraction when compared to the dominant Spanish names of the Filipino population. Besides, from the Fil-Am point of view, it can be helpful to have an Anglo name to reduce being mistaken as a Mexican (because white people see them as all the same ---> brown people).
 
Old 01-26-2014, 05:30 AM
 
Location: Czech Republic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanjelman7 View Post
That has more to do with consumerism and materialism, which are western ideals (and not specifically American). The same thing can be said for Filipinos living in Canada/Australia/United Kingdom.

From an objective point of view, English is the "lingua franca" of global business (which Mandarin Chinese is currently threatening) so it would make sense for Filipinos to teach their children English. In other words, it's not necessarily a love of the language but the practicality it provides in terms of future prosperity and success. For example, more and more Korean exchange students are choosing to learn English in the Philippines because it is cheaper to do so over there (and the only way they can do that is if the Philippines maintains its English skills).

Also, the U.S. and Philippines are strong military allies so it's obviously important for the Filipinos to learn English (because the Americans are definitely not going to learn Tagalog/Cebuano/Illocano any time soon).

From the Filipino-American point of view, the reasons are the same as above and also for assimilation reasons (as permanent residents of the U.S., with occasional vacation trips to PI).

That is more a recent development though, and it constitutes a tiny fraction when compared to the dominant Spanish names of the Filipino population. Besides, from the Fil-Am point of view, it can be helpful to have an Anglo name to reduce being mistaken as a Mexican (because white people see them as all the same ---> brown people).
In the Philippines, I don't think it has anything to do with being a global language but rather because of status symbol. When you speak English in the Philippines, people look up to you more and you are considered to be in the upper class and you are more respected. I know so many people who do this for status.
Also, Malaysians speak English too but as what I heard, the medium of instruction was changed to Malay and that is something that will never ever happen in the Philippines though they have started a subject called Mother tongue for 1st - 4th graders.

Also, I admire what they do in Malaysia that they put two languages in their food packages ( English and Malay ) something that we do not have in the Philippines.

I remember when I was still studying, Filipino subject was not given the same importance as English. Not the same as other countries that they can fail a foreign language but can never be their own language, they are really obliged to do well with their own language.

I don't think Filipinos give the same admiration for other foreign brands the same way as the admiration they have for American stuffs.

They name their children English names not because they think one day their children will go and settle in America and not to be mistaken as Mexicans. Majority name their kids American names because they like American names and think it is more " cool " than the usual old names we have in the Philippines. Frankly, more and more kids in school have English names than Spanish names. Spanish names are considered " antique " and granny like. On the contrary, Spanish names constitutes a tiny fraction now compared to the dominant English names among young people now.
 
Old 01-26-2014, 10:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermosaa View Post
In the Philippines, I don't think it has anything to do with being a global language but rather because of status symbol. When you speak English in the Philippines, people look up to you more and you are considered to be in the upper class and you are more respected. I know so many people who do this for status.
And why do you think it's considered a status symbol? ...because it's a global language! It's funny you say that because most Fil-Ams are looked down upon when they go to PI because they only know how to speak English and don't know how to speak their mother tongue (Tagalog/Cebuano/Illocano) even though some can understand it. In fact, I recommend Fil-Ams go to PI with relatives who can speak the local language or else they'll get taken advantage of just like any other foreigner.

Quote:
Also, Malaysians speak English too but as what I heard, the medium of instruction was changed to Malay and that is something that will never ever happen in the Philippines though they have started a subject called Mother tongue for 1st - 4th graders.
I looked that up and it seems they reverted from English to Bahasa Melayu for teaching math/science because the students' grades were falling, especially in rural areas. One prominent professor at the University of Malaysia stated that the reason for this was that English standards were falling.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/10/wo...alay.html?_r=0

Some highlights of the article:
Quote:
The government cited a decline in students’ math and science grades, particularly in rural areas, as one of the reasons behind the switch.
However, Khoo Kay Kim, emeritus professor of Malaysian history at the University of Malaysia, said that teachers had not been adequately trained before the policy was introduced.
He described Malaysia’s English standards as “pathetic.”
“Fewer and fewer of our professors can now write in English,” he said. “We used to lead Asia in terms of English, and now we have allowed ourselves to slip below other Asian countries.”
Mr. Khoo said it was a “national shame” that the country’s oldest university, the University of Malaysia, had fallen behind other Asian universities in international rankings, a trend he attributed to declining English standards.
He also raised concerns that poor English standards may affect Malaysia’s international competitiveness, saying that multinational companies may struggle to find graduates with good English.
Of course English would be considered a status symbol because it's the language of global business. It's not like those Filipino parents aren't raising their children bilingually and making them only speak English at all times..

Quote:
Also, I admire what they do in Malaysia that they put two languages in their food packages (English and Malay) something that we do not have in the Philippines.
See above remarks and article with respect to decline of English standards in Malaysia.
Interestingly enough: Singapore, a neighboring country with similar demographics as Malaysia, thrives on international business and foreign workers so they speak better English than Malaysia.

Quote:
I remember when I was still studying, Filipino subject was not given the same importance as English. Not the same as other countries that they can fail a foreign language but can never be their own language, they are really obliged to do well with their own language.
Funny you say that because Filipino (Tagalog) is a compulsory subject in the Philippine education system because it is the national language. For example, my cousins speak Cebuano natively but speak Tagalog quite fluently. Ask any Fil-Am and they will say that native Filipinos have a better command of Tagalog than English.

Quote:
I don't think Filipinos give the same admiration for other foreign brands the same way as the admiration they have for American stuffs.
That has more to do with the influence of American pop culture in the Philippines and the U.S. economy still being #1 in the world (with China closing in fast).

Quote:
Frankly, more and more kids in school have English names than Spanish names. Spanish names are considered " antique " and granny like. On the contrary, Spanish names constitutes a tiny fraction now compared to the dominant English names among young people now.
The way I see it, if the Philippines allowed itself to get colonized and influenced by Spain, then it is a natural consequence of the changing times that the U.S. would have its turn on influencing the Philippine Islands. Besides, it's not like Filipinos are changing their Spanish last names as well so that Hispanic mark will always be there.
 
Old 01-26-2014, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Czech Republic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanjelman7 View Post
And why do you think it's considered a status symbol? ...because it's a global language! It's funny you say that because most Fil-Ams are looked down upon when they go to PI because they only know how to speak English and don't know how to speak their mother tongue (Tagalog/Cebuano/Illocano) even though some can understand it. In fact, I recommend Fil-Ams go to PI with relatives who can speak the local language or else they'll get taken advantage of just like any other foreigner.

I looked that up and it seems they reverted from English to Bahasa Melayu for teaching math/science because the students' grades were falling, especially in rural areas. One prominent professor at the University of Malaysia stated that the reason for this was that English standards were falling.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/10/wo...alay.html?_r=0

Some highlights of the article:
Of course English would be considered a status symbol because it's the language of global business. It's not like those Filipino parents aren't raising their children bilingually and making them only speak English at all times..

See above remarks and article with respect to decline of English standards in Malaysia.
Interestingly enough: Singapore, a neighboring country with similar demographics as Malaysia, thrives on international business and foreign workers so they speak better English than Malaysia.

Funny you say that because Filipino (Tagalog) is a compulsory subject in the Philippine education system because it is the national language. For example, my cousins speak Cebuano natively but speak Tagalog quite fluently. Ask any Fil-Am and they will say that native Filipinos have a better command of Tagalog than English.

That has more to do with the influence of American pop culture in the Philippines and the U.S. economy still being #1 in the world (with China closing in fast).

The way I see it, if the Philippines allowed itself to get colonized and influenced by Spain, then it is a natural consequence of the changing times that the U.S. would have its turn on influencing the Philippine Islands. Besides, it's not like Filipinos are changing their Spanish last names as well so that Hispanic mark will always be there.
Filipinos in the Philippines are different from Filipinos abroad. Filipinos who speak English in the Philippines are looked up because they are considered in the upper class. I grew up in the Philippines so I should know. Fil Ams are not looked down, people just expect them to be able to speak Filipino too, on the other hand, Filipinos who were born and raised in the Philippines are expected to speak English as they are looked up and respected more if they speak English.

Yes most Filipino parents that I know do NOT ever want their kids to speak Filipino. They just don't have the choice because it is included in the curriculum in school. A friend of mine is even quite disappointed that Filipino is one of the medium of instructions in Poveda as she was hoping everything will only be in English and Spanish. Another person I know doesn't want her daughter to watch Filipino novelas as she doesn't want her to learn Filipino.

I didn't say Filipino subject was not part of the curriculum, what I was saying was when I was studying, it was not given the same importance as English. The only time it is given importance is every Linggo ng Wika ( filipino language week ).

I think that Filipinos should not be so easy to judge right away and say there is a strong colonial mentality among Filipinos who embrace their Hispanic culture because same thing can also be said to those who embrace the American influence. Just because one was more recent doesn't mean it should be more accepted than the former.
 
Old 01-26-2014, 01:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermosaa View Post
Filipinos in the Philippines are different from Filipinos abroad. Filipinos who speak English in the Philippines are looked up because they are considered in the upper class. I grew up in the Philippines so I should know. Fil Ams are not looked down, people just expect them to be able to speak Filipino too, on the other hand, Filipinos who were born and raised in the Philippines are expected to speak English as they are looked up and respected more if they speak English.
Likewise, I grew up in the U.S. so I should know that native Filipinos DO look down on Fil-Ams that don't speak Filipino. It's just like you said, they "expect them to be able to speak Filipino too." In fact, new Filipino exchange students arriving in the U.S. tend to keep to themselves and rather separate from the Fil-Ams due to different cultural values and upbringing. English does not necessarily unify the two groups; in fact, they find Fil-Am's English to be rather "slangy" if anything. The same can be said for any other Asian-American who decides to travel to his/her country of ethnic origin.

Quote:
Yes most Filipino parents that I know do NOT ever want their kids to speak Filipino. They just don't have the choice because it is included in the curriculum in school.
From a regional point of view, I think it's unfair that Tagalog is forced upon the peoples of the Visayas and Mindanao when Cebuano and other dialects are respectively thriving on their own.
With that reasoning I can understand why some Filipino parents do not want their kids to speak Filipino (Tagalog).
Visayans in particular can claim the pride of Lapu-Lapu as a hero who resisted the Spanish and Manny Pacquiao hails from a Visayan-speaking area in Mindanao.

Quote:
I didn't say Filipino subject was not part of the curriculum, what I was saying was when I was studying, it was not given the same importance as English. The only time it is given importance is every Linggo ng Wika ( filipino language week ).
Despite that fact, Filipinos in general tend to have a stronger command of Tagalog than English (and perhaps very little English in the rural mountainous regions).

Quote:
I think that Filipinos should not be so easy to judge right away and say there is a strong colonial mentality among Filipinos who embrace their Hispanic culture because same thing can also be said to those who embrace the American influence. Just because one was more recent doesn't mean it should be more accepted than the former.
There's nothing wrong with Filipinos embracing the Hispanic aspects of their culture, but I think it's like taking a step backwards if they are going to promote the revival of Spanish as an official language in the Philippines when Filipino (Tagalog) is doing just fine. (Unlike the peoples of Latin America, Filipinos should be proud that their original languages are largely intact and never got completely replaced by Spanish.) If that is the case then Philippine Independence should have never happened.
It also seems rather ignorant to ignore the indigenous Austronesian aspects of Filipino culture that existed much longer than the Spanish rule. This only distances the Philippines from its fellow Austronesian neighbors like Indonesia and Malaysia, etc. Looking at the big picture, historical European influence has severely damaged any chance of unity in Southeast Asia and only left behind instability when they left.

Also, from the the Fil-Am point of view, it's expected to "embrace" American culture or else you will never assimilate into society and will be considered an outsider. As a parallel example, this is why Europeans are having troubles with Muslim immigrants in their countries because the Muslims resist assimilation and the more extreme ones try to promote Sharia Law in those countries.

Last edited by kanjelman7; 01-26-2014 at 01:13 PM..
 
Old 01-26-2014, 05:54 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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What surprised me greatly was there are almost as many Filipinos in the US as Chinese!
 
Old 01-26-2014, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Czech Republic
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Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
What surprised me greatly was there are almost as many Filipinos in the US as Chinese!
It shouldn't be a surprise any more. Philippines was a former US colony.
 
Old 01-26-2014, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermosaa View Post
It shouldn't be a surprise any more. Philippines was a former US colony.
Just seems Chinese are more common...I remember going to Jollibee in LA, do you like that? It was kind of weird tasting haha.
 
Old 01-26-2014, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Czech Republic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Just seems Chinese are more common...I remember going to Jollibee in LA, do you like that? It was kind of weird tasting haha.
Well with the population of Chinese, they are really every where, but Filipinos are next to them in the US.
I think there are really many foreigners who do not like the taste of Jollibee's burger. My husband and daughter do not like it either, my sister's Iranian boyfriend doesn't like it too.
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