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Old 02-07-2013, 02:58 PM
 
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Iíll explain more to give further clarification.

Some people have these stereotypes, generalizations about School Education and Work Lifestyle in Asia. They think of perfect, obedient students in school sacrificing some parts of life just to make sure they do very well in school and usually for something scientific, technical, mathematical related. For Work and Career after school, they think it is all about working extra hard, not enough time for leisure and other activities outside of work.

I believe those stereotypes/generalizations are probably sometimes false, too much of a generalization, and not quite the situation since there is a lot of creative minded, entrepreneurial people in Asia, just like everyone else, and variation in how School Education, Work Lifestyle, and Leisure activities is expressed with other parts of life.

There also seems to be a noticeable difference between China/South Korea/Japan vs. Taiwan/Singapore vs. India vs. Thailand/Vietnam with this.
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:04 AM
 
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From my experience in China, university students are quite respectfully to their teachers. But not all students are good students and generally among the male students they are more lazy and less academically-minded.
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:38 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,943 posts, read 36,139,074 times
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I've taught in Asia for a long time. I think some Asian students work REALLY HARD and others are very lazy. They really aren't that different from American students, etc.

The Education systems are different though. Asian schools are generally rhote memorization, whereas American/Western ones are more critical thinking.

Personally, I think that American/Western kids get better educations.

All that being said, I'd rather teach in Asia. Mostly because Asian society and culture and everything else values education and teachers and such. Whereas in the U.S., there seems to be very little respect for teachers whatsoever.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:05 AM
 
1,487 posts, read 2,053,890 times
Reputation: 936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
I've taught in Asia for a long time. I think some Asian students work REALLY HARD and others are very lazy. They really aren't that different from American students, etc.

The Education systems are different though. Asian schools are generally rhote memorization, whereas American/Western ones are more critical thinking.

Personally, I think that American/Western kids get better educations.

All that being said, I'd rather teach in Asia. Mostly because Asian society and culture and everything else values education and teachers and such. Whereas in the U.S., there seems to be very little respect for teachers whatsoever.
I think Western kids have a better opportunity for a better education because of the material aspects of schools. Newer equipment, easier to use text-books etc. However American kids do not take full advantage of these perks. As you say they don't value education as others do. I taught GED to Central Americans and SE Asians and American kids for a time. Our kids see education as a right and the people from less developed areas see it as a privilege and that mindset maid all the difference. More than 50% of the American students quite or failed because they slacked off 80% of the Central American kids passed with good to excellent grades those who gave up were because they had to work more than anything else and could not dedicate the time to their studies.


In the 1960's I went to Japan and studied at a national university. At that time the national universities were considered better than the private universities as far as standards were concerned. Most of the Japanese kids had far better high school educations than I did and I went through a regents system in the US. They had spent more hours in class and were more advanced in both math and science. They also had a better grasp of history than we id. This was all in preparation for taking the university entrance exam. Once in the university they studied much less than their American counter parts so at then end of the first 4 years (5 in the old Japanese system) the American students who had studied less in high school but more in college were no just about equal to their Japanese counterparts. Needless to say my road was a pretty rocky one because back then no courses were offered in English in my major and to receive a degree you had to write a thesis. Not only that, I also lacked the background that a Japanese student gained in his or her primary education. I had some help with that and I am very proud of the fact that I received a degree from a Japanese national university. I went from being a mediocre student to becoming a much better one. If you're thinking about doing what I did, just remember ...if I could do it than anyone can.


After graduation I went to live in Spain and all of my children where born and received their first 5 or 6 years of education in Madrid. When I returned to the US in the 1980's my kids were miles ahead of their American educated students. Even the one who hated school was an honor roll student who finished high school among the top 50 students in the city (a major metropolis). Why such a difference again it was the mindset. In Spain at that time education was still a luxury and until the 80's many people didn't have the opportunity that Americans had to go to school until you were 16 or finished high school.

Today, on of my kids is a teacher in the Spanish system and it has fallen apart. The kids are no longer miles ahead of our kids. They go to school less hours than they did a generation earlier and they, like us. look at education as a right not a privilege. I saw the same thing in Japan though not to the degree that it has happened in Spain.

What has happened to education in the modern world? I have printed this before but it is wor

th another printing. Could you pass this test? I don't think I could in the time limited given

In 1885 the 8th grade was considered upper level education. Many children quit school as soon as they could master the basic fundamentals of the 3 R's (reading, writing and arithmetic). Most never went past the 3rd or 4th grade. That's all you needed for the farm and most city jobs. Child labor laws were not in existence. Additionally today's education has much more focus on technology and sociology than the grammar and geography of old. It's a different world with different requirements and capabilities needed to succeed.
Could You Have Passed the 8th Grade in 1895?
This is the eighth-grade final exam from 1895 from Salina, KS. It was taken from the original document on file at the Smoky Valley Genealogical Society and Library in Salina, KS and reprinted by the Salina Journal.
8th Grade Final Exam: Salina, KS Ė 1895
Grammar (Time, one hour)
1. Give nine rules for the use of Capital Letters.
2. Name the Parts of Speech and define those that have no modifications.
3. Define Verse, Stanza and Paragraph.
4. What are the Principal Parts of a verb? Give Principal Parts of do, lie, lay and run.
5. Define Case, Illustrate each Case.
6. What is Punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of Punctuation.
7 - 10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.
Arithmetic (Time, 1.25 hours)
1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
2. A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
3. If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50 cts. per bu., deducting 1050 lbs. for tare?
4. District No. 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
5. Find cost of 6720 lbs. coal at $6.00 per ton.
6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.
7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at $20 per m?
8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.
9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre, the distance around which is 640 rods?
10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt.
U.S. History (Time, 45 minutes)
1. Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided.
2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus.
3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.
4. Show the territorial growth of the United States.
5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas.
6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion.
7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?
8. Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, and 1865?
Orthography (Time, one hour)
1. What is meant by the following: Alphabet, phonetic orthography, etymology, syllabication?
2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
3. What are the following, and give examples of each: Trigraph, subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals?
4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u'.
5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e'. Name two exceptions under each rule.
6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: Bi, dis, mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, super.
8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the sign that indicates the sound: Card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last.
9. Use the following correctly in sentences, Cite, site, sight, fane, fain, feign, vane, vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.
10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.
Geography (Time, one hour)
1. What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas?
3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
4. Describe the mountains of N.A.
5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, Manitoba, Hecla, Yukon, St. Helena, Juan Fermandez, spinwall and Orinoco.
6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S.
7. Name all the republics of Europe and give capital of each.
8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.
10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give inclination of the earth.
[LEFT][SIZE=-1][If you are a product [read: victim] of the public school system in the past 40~50 years then consider this, The Department of Education gets what it pays for.][/SIZE][/LEFT]
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:18 PM
 
6,056 posts, read 10,837,768 times
Reputation: 3063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom9 View Post
I think Western kids have a better opportunity for a better education because of the material aspects of schools. Newer equipment, easier to use text-books etc. However American kids do not take full advantage of these perks. As you say they don't value education as others do. I taught GED to Central Americans and SE Asians and American kids for a time. Our kids see education as a right and the people from less developed areas see it as a privilege and that mindset maid all the difference. More than 50% of the American students quite or failed because they slacked off 80% of the Central American kids passed with good to excellent grades those who gave up were because they had to work more than anything else and could not dedicate the time to their studies.


In the 1960's I went to Japan and studied at a national university. At that time the national universities were considered better than the private universities as far as standards were concerned. Most of the Japanese kids had far better high school educations than I did and I went through a regents system in the US. They had spent more hours in class and were more advanced in both math and science. They also had a better grasp of history than we id. This was all in preparation for taking the university entrance exam. Once in the university they studied much less than their American counter parts so at then end of the first 4 years (5 in the old Japanese system) the American students who had studied less in high school but more in college were no just about equal to their Japanese counterparts. Needless to say my road was a pretty rocky one because back then no courses were offered in English in my major and to receive a degree you had to write a thesis. Not only that, I also lacked the background that a Japanese student gained in his or her primary education. I had some help with that and I am very proud of the fact that I received a degree from a Japanese national university. I went from being a mediocre student to becoming a much better one. If you're thinking about doing what I did, just remember ...if I could do it than anyone can.


After graduation I went to live in Spain and all of my children where born and received their first 5 or 6 years of education in Madrid. When I returned to the US in the 1980's my kids were miles ahead of their American educated students. Even the one who hated school was an honor roll student who finished high school among the top 50 students in the city (a major metropolis). Why such a difference again it was the mindset. In Spain at that time education was still a luxury and until the 80's many people didn't have the opportunity that Americans had to go to school until you were 16 or finished high school.

Today, on of my kids is a teacher in the Spanish system and it has fallen apart. The kids are no longer miles ahead of our kids. They go to school less hours than they did a generation earlier and they, like us. look at education as a right not a privilege. I saw the same thing in Japan though not to the degree that it has happened in Spain.

What has happened to education in the modern world? I have printed this before but it is wor

th another printing. Could you pass this test? I don't think I could in the time limited given

In 1885 the 8th grade was considered upper level education. Many children quit school as soon as they could master the basic fundamentals of the 3 R's (reading, writing and arithmetic). Most never went past the 3rd or 4th grade. That's all you needed for the farm and most city jobs. Child labor laws were not in existence. Additionally today's education has much more focus on technology and sociology than the grammar and geography of old. It's a different world with different requirements and capabilities needed to succeed.
Could You Have Passed the 8th Grade in 1895?
This is the eighth-grade final exam from 1895 from Salina, KS. It was taken from the original document on file at the Smoky Valley Genealogical Society and Library in Salina, KS and reprinted by the Salina Journal.
8th Grade Final Exam: Salina, KS – 1895
Grammar (Time, one hour)
1. Give nine rules for the use of Capital Letters.
2. Name the Parts of Speech and define those that have no modifications.
3. Define Verse, Stanza and Paragraph.
4. What are the Principal Parts of a verb? Give Principal Parts of do, lie, lay and run.
5. Define Case, Illustrate each Case.
6. What is Punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of Punctuation.
7 - 10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.
Arithmetic (Time, 1.25 hours)
1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
2. A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
3. If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50 cts. per bu., deducting 1050 lbs. for tare?
4. District No. 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
5. Find cost of 6720 lbs. coal at $6.00 per ton.
6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.
7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at $20 per m?
8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.
9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre, the distance around which is 640 rods?
10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt.
U.S. History (Time, 45 minutes)
1. Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided.
2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus.
3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.
4. Show the territorial growth of the United States.
5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas.
6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion.
7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?
8. Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, and 1865?
Orthography (Time, one hour)
1. What is meant by the following: Alphabet, phonetic orthography, etymology, syllabication?
2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
3. What are the following, and give examples of each: Trigraph, subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals?
4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u'.
5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e'. Name two exceptions under each rule.
6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: Bi, dis, mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, super.
8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the sign that indicates the sound: Card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last.
9. Use the following correctly in sentences, Cite, site, sight, fane, fain, feign, vane, vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.
10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.
Geography (Time, one hour)
1. What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas?
3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
4. Describe the mountains of N.A.
5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, Manitoba, Hecla, Yukon, St. Helena, Juan Fermandez, spinwall and Orinoco.
6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S.
7. Name all the republics of Europe and give capital of each.
8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.
10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give inclination of the earth.
[LEFT][SIZE=-1][If you are a product [read: victim] of the public school system in the past 40~50 years then consider this, The Department of Education gets what it pays for.][/SIZE][/LEFT]
This was also a very specific, informative post, and a high quality intellectual debate about the idea of education being expressed in people’s lives and collaterally how it influences all of society.

The post reminds me of this other topic: Chinese Students Brilliantly Outscore Counterparts In Other Countries!. There was a debate over there that was so similar to your post, and the wealth of information I wrote on post number 62/page 7 resonates well for what you are saying.

All of the activity related to education can be multidimensional with saturated connotations, and varying way of being, including for school education in Asia.

Last edited by Thepastpresentandfuture; 02-09-2013 at 01:27 PM..
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:35 PM
 
6,056 posts, read 10,837,768 times
Reputation: 3063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
I've taught in Asia for a long time. I think some Asian students work REALLY HARD and others are very lazy. They really aren't that different from American students, etc.

The Education systems are different though. Asian schools are generally rhote memorization, whereas American/Western ones are more critical thinking.

Personally, I think that American/Western kids get better educations.

All that being said, I'd rather teach in Asia. Mostly because Asian society and culture and everything else values education and teachers and such. Whereas in the U.S., there seems to be very little respect for teachers whatsoever.
What are all of the places in Asia where you had a teaching career? Was it South Korea and Japan?

There is some false stereotypes and generalizations for School Education and Career Work Lifestyle in Asia, so I am glad I wrote a topic about this to give further clarification and accurate views in opinions. That is true not all Asian students perform equally well in school, including how much motivation and loyalty they have for school, yet that false stereotype exists. The rhote memorization vs. critical thinking variation sounds intriguing. I know what that can indicate, but can you further say the associations related to that?

Well, certain areas of Asia can offer a high quality vibrant school education experience, so I am not sure if I would say Europeans/Americans/Canadian/Australians always get better educations. Overall, for K-12 and College University it is probably equal, but expressed a bit differently.

There is some areas of USA that respects, value education and the teaching career such as in middle class/upper class neighborhoods in the best cities/regions, similar to a lot of other countries. However, Asia does seem to occasionally show more ubiquitous, frequent, consistent value and respect for Teachers and School Education.

This topic is also about Work Career Lifestyle in Asia.

What are your experiences and views for how people Work in Asia for their careers, and is there a similar correlation to the false stereotypes with School Education?

Last edited by Thepastpresentandfuture; 02-09-2013 at 01:47 PM..
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
1,413 posts, read 3,871,793 times
Reputation: 1425
To one of the above posters. Japan has very current equipment and books. Most students pay yearly for brand new books and ect...

Sorry not so meaningful of a post, I really want to read through it all at a later time. Great discussion.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:49 PM
 
1,487 posts, read 2,053,890 times
Reputation: 936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momotaro View Post
To one of the above posters. Japan has very current equipment and books. Most students pay yearly for brand new books and ect...

Sorry not so meaningful of a post, I really want to read through it all at a later time. Great discussion.
To me it is a very meaningful post and I'd like to hear more details. When I was a student in Japan it was the 1960's and Japan was still recovering from the war. It had not yet had the economic boom that propelled it to the top of the heap. Also I was in college not in high school. The HS text for general subjects were quite good and 40 some years later I still have some of them. The equipment at the university level especially in technical fields left much to be desired. I had many classes in quonset hut like wooden structure that were boiling hot in the summer and freezing cold in the winter. Even the main buildings had to have stoves in many classrooms because there was no central heating. and I was in one of the top national universities. A few years ago I visited all of the schools I had studies at and of course it was a totally different world with modern buildings and many modern conveniences. As a side bar just let me say that today with all the interest in learning the Japanese language there are lots of new and sometimes flashy materials and gadgets on the market but the basic texts that I used at Kokusai Gakuyukai are still among the best I have ever seen and they are still using some variations of those texts at those centers today. The Nelson Chinese character (Japanese - English) is ,in a revised form but basically the same, still the best dictionary of it kind.

I'd like to hear more from those who have taught or studied in high school and at university level in Japan recently. Not just English but any subject.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:24 PM
JL
 
7,351 posts, read 11,876,045 times
Reputation: 7198
For the past 12-13 yrs, there seems to be alot of emphasis on entrepreneurship in the U.S...especially after the dot com era. Also, with the cost of college education skyrocketing, i see many kids skipping college or taking their time pursuing a higher education.

From what i've seen, many of the younger generation in Asia are trying to become entrepreneurs though a formal education is still the obvious safe bet.
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:23 PM
 
1,487 posts, read 2,053,890 times
Reputation: 936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepastpresentandfuture View Post
This was also a very specific, informative post, and a high quality intellectual debate about the idea of education being expressed in peopleís lives and collaterally how it influences all of society.

The post reminds me of this other topic: Chinese Students Brilliantly Outscore Counterparts In Other Countries!. There was a debate over there that was so similar to your post, and the wealth of information I wrote on post number 62/page 7 resonates well for what you are saying.

All of the activity related to education can be multidimensional with saturated connotations, and varying way of being, including for school education in Asia.

Yes I read that whole thread and your post was certainly full of great information much of which is conformation of what I believe and there was also quite a lot of things I hadn't thought about. Sorry about taking so long to get bacj to you.
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