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Old 02-11-2013, 09:11 PM
 
Location: The end of the road Alaska
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I imagine there must be added pressure on children in China to succeed as most are the only child and are soley responsible for the reputation of the family as well as care and support of their elders in years to come. The pressure must be immense.
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by GrammasCabin View Post
I imagine there must be added pressure on children in China to succeed as most are the only child and are soley responsible for the reputation of the family as well as care and support of their elders in years to come. The pressure must be immense.
Chinese are a little bit more laid-back than Japanese and Koreans though (relatively speaking).
In China people always say Korean bosses are the toughest.

Communist revolution has some "positive" effect, I guess.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
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Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
That is just the point.
America is a "grass root dominated" society. I mean most people do not even want to be the elite.
East Asian culture encourages people to be elite. This is exactly the function of imperial examination in ancient China--- as long as you study hard, you can join the ruling class.

Can not say I disagree with that type of society.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:08 PM
 
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It is noteworthy that although the pressure to score well in order to get into the most prestigious schools apply to China, Korea, Japan and America, the attitude towards such an achievement in life is different between China and Korea, and Japan and America.


The Chinese and Koreans strongly believe that good grades and getting into a top college determines one's future path.

Though the Japanese buys that belief too, that is not what their kids are taught at home. They were taught that they were to become a better person with principles and moral values and come out in society to contribute for the greater good.


The Americans pretty much live by the American Dream whereby every man pursues his own individual interests and dreams, which don't necessarily mean just getting into the most prestigious careers and schools so to speak.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:15 PM
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
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Originally Posted by fellowjoe View Post
It is noteworthy that although the pressure to score well in order to get into the most prestigious schools apply to China, Korea, Japan and America, the attitude towards such an achievement in life is different between China and Korea, and Japan and America.


The Chinese and Koreans strongly believe that good grades and getting into a top college determines one's future path.

Though the Japanese buys that belief too, that is not what their kids are taught at home. They were taught that they were to become a better person with principles and moral values and come out in society to contribute for the greater good.


The Americans pretty much live by the American Dream whereby every man pursues his own individual interests and dreams, which don't necessarily mean just getting into the most prestigious careers and schools so to speak.

My Japanese wife does not agree with you. They were taught at home, to study and get into the best Kindergarten, Elementary, Junior High, High School and then college. My wife had to attend a specific Japanese Uni, then she got tired of it and earned her degrees in the USA.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Momotaro View Post
My Japanese wife does not agree with you. They were taught at home, to study and get into the best Kindergarten, Elementary, Junior High, High School and then college. My wife had to attend a specific Japanese Uni, then she got tired of it and earned her degrees in the USA.
I mean their attitude towards life, not just in education.

While Chinese and Korean parents expect their kids to be the breadwinner of the family in the future and to always be at the top of everything (in school, career, etc), Japanese parents emphasize more on contribution to society and moral values because of the Japanese belief in collective harmony and interest over the individual one.


This is based on the experiences of some of my Japanese friends and my aunt who has studied in Japan for close to ten years.

Last edited by fellowjoe; 02-11-2013 at 10:37 PM..
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:39 PM
 
Location: US Empire, Pac NW
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Some of the "how" they put pressure on kids are the following:

From a very early age (think before kindergarten) children are told that if they do not do well in school then their lives will lead to very different paths, and success is only guaranteed if they are a genius or well-studied AND try hard.

During school, most students do homework and get extra assignments at "cram schools." Basic idea is to get ahead of your peers and climb up. Chances are you *MIGHT* get into a better school when you graduate (either grade school -> high school or high school -> college).

Many students study nearly full time during their summer breaks too. Many cram schools have summer hours at a reduced time but is still anywhere from 4-8 hours of studying. Both geniuses and non-geniuses are expected to study hard to "get ahead."

Of all the Japanese or other East Asian people I know, all of them studied their butts off. They were aghast at the low level of American high school grads and I agreed with them. I was an exception - I had AP math, science, history, etc. And that was AVERAGE for the entering students. But most Americans had to take remedial math in college. I felt like weeping.

At the same time many of the ones who go to college in the US don't like how hard they have to study and are envious of the students who stayed in their homeland. My wife was the same way - she studied psychology in Japan but in reality she joined a drinking club with a tennis problem (yes I wrote that the right way - they would drink every day). She said all her friends and most people she knew didn't study very hard and the professors seemed to not care and grade on a curve. Since everyone partied, everyone got around a C average.

Engineering was a bit different from what I hear - they demanded more studying. But most of it was rote memorization and very little in the way of original projects.

And after graduation from college you basically were a shoe-in if you graduated from a good school.

The flip side is many corporations hire folks who have zero investigational skills and gumption, and have no interest in doing anything but get in at the normal time, and leave after their boss. The tallest blade is cut first. Sit down, do as your told, and that is that. But the pedigree of your degree will get you up the ladder faster, especially if you were at the same university as your boss.

Kids are taught all of this and understand it by the first grade. So the pressure is enormous. It's not uncommon to have kids who will be going to lower-quality schools or lower-pedigree colleges to commit suicide.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by eskercurve View Post
Some of the "how" they put pressure on kids are the following:

From a very early age (think before kindergarten) children are told that if they do not do well in school then their lives will lead to very different paths, and success is only guaranteed if they are a genius or well-studied AND try hard.

During school, most students do homework and get extra assignments at "cram schools." Basic idea is to get ahead of your peers and climb up. Chances are you *MIGHT* get into a better school when you graduate (either grade school -> high school or high school -> college).

Many students study nearly full time during their summer breaks too. Many cram schools have summer hours at a reduced time but is still anywhere from 4-8 hours of studying. Both geniuses and non-geniuses are expected to study hard to "get ahead."

Of all the Japanese or other East Asian people I know, all of them studied their butts off. They were aghast at the low level of American high school grads and I agreed with them. I was an exception - I had AP math, science, history, etc. And that was AVERAGE for the entering students. But most Americans had to take remedial math in college. I felt like weeping.

At the same time many of the ones who go to college in the US don't like how hard they have to study and are envious of the students who stayed in their homeland. My wife was the same way - she studied psychology in Japan but in reality she joined a drinking club with a tennis problem (yes I wrote that the right way - they would drink every day). She said all her friends and most people she knew didn't study very hard and the professors seemed to not care and grade on a curve. Since everyone partied, everyone got around a C average.

Engineering was a bit different from what I hear - they demanded more studying. But most of it was rote memorization and very little in the way of original projects.

And after graduation from college you basically were a shoe-in if you graduated from a good school.

The flip side is many corporations hire folks who have zero investigational skills and gumption, and have no interest in doing anything but get in at the normal time, and leave after their boss. The tallest blade is cut first. Sit down, do as your told, and that is that. But the pedigree of your degree will get you up the ladder faster, especially if you were at the same university as your boss.

Kids are taught all of this and understand it by the first grade. So the pressure is enormous. It's not uncommon to have kids who will be going to lower-quality schools or lower-pedigree colleges to commit suicide.
I would say "cram school" is not as common in mainland China as in Japan, Taiwan etc.
It is partly because in China the schools have long hours already. Many high schools require evening attendance.

Many "good" students in China find homework to do by themselves. They feel the assignments given by teachers are not enough.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Chinese are a little bit more laid-back than Japanese and Koreans though (relatively speaking).
In China people always say Korean bosses are the toughest.

Communist revolution has some "positive" effect, I guess.
I think that China is a good example of how socialism can be used to pull an underdeveloped nation up by it's bootstraps and prepare it to become a capitalist market economy. Socialism won't work in the long run but for the short term and economic recovery in poor nations it has a function.

Mao used it to give China back to the Chinese. After 64 years communism has served its purpose and will no longer be a part of the China of the future. The Chinese are proof (again) that you cannot keep a good (business) man down.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:39 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,521,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fellowjoe View Post
It is noteworthy that although the pressure to score well in order to get into the most prestigious schools apply to China, Korea, Japan and America, the attitude towards such an achievement in life is different between China and Korea, and Japan and America.


The Chinese and Koreans strongly believe that good grades and getting into a top college determines one's future path.

Though the Japanese buys that belief too, that is not what their kids are taught at home. They were taught that they were to become a better person with principles and moral values and come out in society to contribute for the greater good.


The Americans pretty much live by the American Dream whereby every man pursues his own individual interests and dreams, which don't necessarily mean just getting into the most prestigious careers and schools so to speak.
This is interesting. Despite Confucian philosophy, it seems that the idea of 'social harmony' is more central to Japanese society than China or Korea. Maybe Communism has something to do with this.
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