U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 02-19-2013, 01:44 AM
 
1,099 posts, read 1,670,934 times
Reputation: 971

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
I'd probably go with Singaporeans. But, when I've been in Singapore, it doesn't seem 'western' at all. But, they do speak English, use English, and are very international/cosmpolitan in outlook.

When I open up my browser, it opens to Yahoo Sg (Yahoo's Singapore page). Since it's all in English, I've never bothered to change it. It's interesting to see the world through the SG perspective, it also covers a lot from China and India, Indonesia, and Malaysia which is interesting. Especially since it's all in English.

But, there is a lot more to 'westernism' than just speaking English. I also associate the pro-gay, pro-feminism, pro-marijuana and everything else to be very western. I don't see those things in Singapore or anywhere in Asia. That being said, I personally like that drugs aren't an issue in Singapore, whereas they are entranched deep into the U.S.
There are many aspects that make Singapore different from the West. Singapore is more authoritarian with less press freedom, very strict laws (chewing gum ban, presence of sodomy laws) and harsh punishments (death penalty for drug traffickers, caning for graffiti) compared to the West. There's no minimum wage law. I would not say that one is better than the other, as Singapore has certainly proven that this type of government works there. This makes it slightly more Chinese than British IMHO.

 
Old 02-19-2013, 03:04 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,180,478 times
Reputation: 9483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Yes marijuana use is low in most of Asia because of the strict drug laws. But in terms of drinking many Singaporeans get drunk to be cool.etc, although it's not as prevalent as in the West. But they listen to pretty much the same music (although now K-pop etc has grown in popularity), have fairly similar fashions, similar life goals, Singaporeans trend to travel a lot and many live/work overseas.
In short, they take all the good of Western culture, and don't have to deal with all the undesireables.

Western culture, to me, involves a lot of drug usage, disrespect for parents, strong sense of individuality with a strong 'F' to authority, etc.

If drinking alcohol is a barometer, than Korea and Japan would 'out-west' the west.

I'm also not so sure about music. My experience in Japan/Korea, is that they very much like the 'Boy Band' types, i.e. K-Pop is that same kind of vein. While that's equally popular in the West, it's more popular among 13 and 14 year old girls. I'm routinely amazed at the large amount of Korean and Japanese adults who like bands like 'One Direction', 'Backstreet Boys', 'Boys II Men' and so forth. Than there is the entire Walt Disney love affair that Asia has. Again, something in the West we'd associate with very young teenagers. But, adults over here in Asia love it.

It IS western, it IS American. But, it's popular among a completely different demographic that is appears odd to westerners.
 
Old 02-19-2013, 04:03 AM
kyh
 
Location: Malaysia & Singapore
383 posts, read 1,062,785 times
Reputation: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
In short, they take all the good of Western culture, and don't have to deal with all the undesireables.

Western culture, to me, involves a lot of drug usage, disrespect for parents, strong sense of individuality with a strong 'F' to authority, etc.

If drinking alcohol is a barometer, than Korea and Japan would 'out-west' the west.

I'm also not so sure about music. My experience in Japan/Korea, is that they very much like the 'Boy Band' types, i.e. K-Pop is that same kind of vein. While that's equally popular in the West, it's more popular among 13 and 14 year old girls. I'm routinely amazed at the large amount of Korean and Japanese adults who like bands like 'One Direction', 'Backstreet Boys', 'Boys II Men' and so forth. Than there is the entire Walt Disney love affair that Asia has. Again, something in the West we'd associate with very young teenagers. But, adults over here in Asia love it.

It IS western, it IS American. But, it's popular among a completely different demographic that is appears odd to westerners.
Pop music usually reigns in Asia, while in America the trend has always been rap, r&b, urban, etc since the 90s.

I personally find the Philippines the most Westernized country in Asia - the Western element just runs deep in their blood and veins. Even though most Filipinos are conservative, but that doesn't mean that they are un-Western. Every aspect of their life, from their culture, religion, languages, social mores and behaviours, dances, music, traditions just scream Latin/European. I find Singaporeans to be more superficially Western (I mean the Western-inclined lot), that they purposely choose to live a Western lifestyle. However for the Filipinos, whether they want it or not, the Western element is tied to their culture and it is hard not to think of the Western roots (or specifically, Spanish and American) when you speak of Filipino culture.
 
Old 02-19-2013, 06:21 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,412,919 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
In short, they take all the good of Western culture, and don't have to deal with all the undesireables.

Western culture, to me, involves a lot of drug usage, disrespect for parents, strong sense of individuality with a strong 'F' to authority, etc.

If drinking alcohol is a barometer, than Korea and Japan would 'out-west' the west.

I'm also not so sure about music. My experience in Japan/Korea, is that they very much like the 'Boy Band' types, i.e. K-Pop is that same kind of vein. While that's equally popular in the West, it's more popular among 13 and 14 year old girls. I'm routinely amazed at the large amount of Korean and Japanese adults who like bands like 'One Direction', 'Backstreet Boys', 'Boys II Men' and so forth. Than there is the entire Walt Disney love affair that Asia has. Again, something in the West we'd associate with very young teenagers. But, adults over here in Asia love it.

It IS western, it IS American. But, it's popular among a completely different demographic that is appears odd to westerners.
I don't think being a Disney fanatic is restricted to kids and teenagers. I'm more into the older Disney films, but many adults fondly remember and appreciate the films.

Speaking of disrespect for parents, when I was recently in Singapore I was just surprised at how badly behaved some of the children were, of all ages. Demanding, disrespectful: maybe just a small sample, but I wonder if the fact that so many are raised by maids/nannies has made them spoilt? Also many of them are only children.

Singapore definitely has that strong sense of individuality though.
 
Old 02-19-2013, 06:22 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,412,919 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyh View Post
Pop music usually reigns in Asia, while in America the trend has always been rap, r&b, urban, etc since the 90s.

I personally find the Philippines the most Westernized country in Asia - the Western element just runs deep in their blood and veins. Even though most Filipinos are conservative, but that doesn't mean that they are un-Western. Every aspect of their life, from their culture, religion, languages, social mores and behaviours, dances, music, traditions just scream Latin/European. I find Singaporeans to be more superficially Western (I mean the Western-inclined lot), that they purposely choose to live a Western lifestyle. However for the Filipinos, whether they want it or not, the Western element is tied to their culture and it is hard not to think of the Western roots (or specifically, Spanish and American) when you speak of Filipino culture.
I disagree, I think Filipino's are seen as more western than they are, especially by Americans who think they're almost Latinos. For a start few of them speak Spanish, and the Spanish names were mostly imposed upon them. Filipinos actually seem similar to Indonesian in how truly western they are, although I will agree they were more influenced by the Spanish than the Indonesians were by the Dutch, and have some cultural traits of Spanish, but no more than the Singaporeans took on British culture.
 
Old 02-19-2013, 07:08 AM
kyh
 
Location: Malaysia & Singapore
383 posts, read 1,062,785 times
Reputation: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
I disagree, I think Filipino's are seen as more western than they are, especially by Americans who think they're almost Latinos. For a start few of them speak Spanish, and the Spanish names were mostly imposed upon them. Filipinos actually seem similar to Indonesian in how truly western they are, although I will agree they were more influenced by the Spanish than the Indonesians were by the Dutch, and have some cultural traits of Spanish, but no more than the Singaporeans took on British culture.
It doesn't have to do with Spanish names to be Western/European, even though having a majority of the populace with Spanish names do give an impression of a Latinized/Hispanicized society. I don't really find how Singaporeans take British culture seriously except for the fact that many speak English (even so, it's Singlish that predominates in everyday life). Not many go on high teas, English polo games, etc. Many Singaporean families remain traditional - some are very Chinese and downright Confucian. If being modern and hip = Western, then the Western element for the Filipinos are different. Their culture is heavily Hispanic (Spanish/European), their main religion is Catholicism (of Spanish tradition - Western), their traditional dresses remind you of Spanish/Hispanic dresses, their generally vivacious personality fits more with the Western mould than the Asian one, their traditional music is also laced with Spanish influence, and not to mention many do speak English too like the Singaporeans.

As for Singaporeans - Western = English-speaking, going to parties/clubs, hanging out at swanky cafes, etc. But most of these traits are superficial and aren't entrenched in their roots. You can easily stop doing any of these and still be Singaporean. But Filipino culture will be drastically different if you remove all the Spanish elements in it, and that's what makes it the most European culture among all Asian nations.
 
Old 02-19-2013, 07:22 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,412,919 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyh View Post
It doesn't have to do with Spanish names to be Western/European, even though having a majority of the populace with Spanish names do give an impression of a Latinized/Hispanicized society. I don't really find how Singaporeans take British culture seriously except for the fact that many speak English (even so, it's Singlish that predominates in everyday life). Not many go on high teas, English polo games, etc. Many Singaporean families remain traditional - some are very Chinese and downright Confucian. If being modern and hip = Western, then the Western element for the Filipinos are different. Their culture is heavily Hispanic (Spanish/European), their main religion is Catholicism (of Spanish tradition - Western), their traditional dresses remind you of Spanish/Hispanic dresses, their generally vivacious personality fits more with the Western mould than the Asian one, their traditional music is also laced with Spanish influence, and not to mention many do speak English too like the Singaporeans.

As for Singaporeans - Western = English-speaking, going to parties/clubs, hanging out at swanky cafes, etc. But most of these traits are superficial and aren't entrenched in their roots. You can easily stop doing any of these and still be Singaporean. But Filipino culture will be drastically different if you remove all the Spanish elements in it, and that's what makes it the most European culture among all Asian nations.
Oh yeah religion is a huge factor, no doubt, but I think many Singaporeans have been exposed to western traditions of thinking, largely influenced by the Judaeo-Christian and Greco-Roman traditions. I suppose the fact that many of the Singaporeans I know are Christian, both Protestant and Catholic (they tend to be more westernised) also changes things. Asians definitely can be vivacious and extroverted: it isn't just Filipino culture. The Malays/Indonesians, for instance, can be pretty extroverted and friendly. Think of the Balinese for instance.

And how many Filipinos still maintain a lot of traditional customs common with other Austronesian cultures? Most of what can be said about the Spanish and Filipinos can be said about the British and Singaporeans, although much of the change has been after the republic area, the roots were planted earlier on. Many Singaporeans have 'English' given names, for instance. Filipinos from Manila might be as westernised as Singaporeans, but I certainly don't think they're more so than the English-speaking Singaporeans, which is who I'm more referring to. You're right, many in Singapore are still quite Chinese/Malay are traditional, but there definitely is variation.
 
Old 02-19-2013, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Derby, Western Australia
3,091 posts, read 3,541,307 times
Reputation: 2158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Having known quite a few Singaporeans, mostly those who mainly speak English (as well as those for whom English is a second language) I would say they are significantly more Western in their thinking/outlook etc than people from countries like Vietnam, China, Japan, Korea, Thailand.etc. I was going to ask a general question of who the most westernised Asians are, but I would say it would be Singaporeans.

I had a friend whose mother mostly cooked Western food at home (well I guess my mother did as well, but we've lived here a long time) and of course only spoke English. Singapore was also a lot more influenced by Britain through colonialism than India.etc - actually that's not that true, Singapore has become a lot more globalised/westernised in the past 20-30 years or so, with American, British and other culture.

Of course, even the most westernised Singaporeans can usually speak some Mandarin, Malay or Tamil, and celebrate Chinese New Year or Ramadan (and may be familiar with aspects of Chinese culture) but they don't seem to have the same deep Confucian ethics, are pretty liberal.etc and young people seem to pretty much have the same lifestyle as people in the West. They party, drink, have pre-marital sex, have western style weddings.etc.

I'd say some of them are practically Westerners - some of them even seem to see Western culture as superior or to be emulated. I had a friend who used to try to put on an American accent even though she'd never been there! They are definitely a different breed from even people in modern countries like Japan, Taiwan, HK IMO.
Singaporeans to me seem like a genuine mix between East and West, other Asian countries seem less so. Of course it depends on the particular generation and family culture though, younger, first-language English speakers are unsurprisingly far more Western in outlook than there often unilingual grandparents. I get the feeling that if mother tongue language learning wasn't compulsory it would be mostly disappear in a few generations time.

My Mum is English educated and has exclusively spoken to me in English, but still mainly cooks mainly in a Chinese/Singaporean style, even something like Bolognaise she will cook with rice as the staple. In my experience it seems people in Singapore still predominantly cook or consume traditional meals regardless of cultural tendencies.
 
Old 02-19-2013, 07:41 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,412,919 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by sulkiercupid View Post
Singaporeans to me seem like a genuine mix between East and West, other Asian countries seem less so. Of course it depends on the particular generation and family culture though, younger, first-language English speakers are unsurprisingly far more Western in outlook than there often unilingual grandparents. I get the feeling that if mother tongue language learning wasn't compulsory it would be mostly disappear in a few generations time.

My Mum is English educated and has exclusively spoken to me in English, but still mainly cooks mainly in a Chinese/Singaporean style, even something like Bolognaise she will cook with rice as the staple. In my experience it seems people in Singapore still predominantly cook or consume traditional meals regardless of cultural tendencies.
My mum is the same but cooked a mix of things when we were growing up. We ate quite a lot of rice, but also things like spaghetti or fish fingers. My friend's mother mostly cooked western food. My Sri Lankan Singaporean friend's family was more traditional, cooking Indian food most of the time, as well as an Indian Malaysian friend who was a bit more westernised.
 
Old 02-19-2013, 07:54 AM
kyh
 
Location: Malaysia & Singapore
383 posts, read 1,062,785 times
Reputation: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Oh yeah religion is a huge factor, no doubt, but I think many Singaporeans have been exposed to western traditions of thinking, largely influenced by the Judaeo-Christian and Greco-Roman traditions. I suppose the fact that many of the Singaporeans I know are Christian, both Protestant and Catholic (they tend to be more westernised) also changes things. Asians definitely can be vivacious and extroverted: it isn't just Filipino culture. The Malays/Indonesians, for instance, can be pretty extroverted and friendly. Think of the Balinese for instance.

And how many Filipinos still maintain a lot of traditional customs common with other Austronesian cultures? Most of what can be said about the Spanish and Filipinos can be said about the British and Singaporeans, although much of the change has been after the republic area, the roots were planted earlier on. Many Singaporeans have 'English' given names, for instance. Filipinos from Manila might be as westernised as Singaporeans, but I certainly don't think they're more so than the English-speaking Singaporeans, which is who I'm more referring to. You're right, many in Singapore are still quite Chinese/Malay are traditional, but there definitely is variation.
The fact that the Chinese immigrants came much later to Singapore (and bringing with them a strong Chinese culture, traditions, and beliefs that are hard to forgo, unlike the noticeably weaker indigenous cultures which can suffer at the face of foreign cultural imperialism), and the fact that British colonization came much later to the city state compared to 4 centuries of Hispanicization of the Filipino people and culture certainly provide extra weight to the total Europeanization of the people. The Spanish influence on Filipinos permeates in almost every aspect of traditional life. And yes, even by 'traditional', Filipinos are Hispanic at the core, what more about the modern ones.

I wouldn't say Malays and Indonesians are vivacious as a whole. Friendly yes, but most are very shy, more so with their Islamic roots which generally frown on Western values and the unrestricted mixing of sexes, no Asian race can match the level of vivacity of the Christian, Hispanic Filipino peoples and their acceptance of Western culture and values. Balinese are only a tiny 3 million out of 240 million Indonesians, so they are the exception more than the norm. Even so, traditional Balinese culture is definitively Asian.

You can have an English name yet be culturally and socially Asian, like many Taiwanese and mainland Chinese who give themselves English names yet remain very Chinese. Also, do note that English-speaking Singaporeans are only a quarter of the Singaporean populace, and the Christians are only 1/5 of the population. These figures are certainly nowhere representative of the majority of the Singaporeans. But when 91% of Filipinos are Christian, and almost all of them are Hispanicized, you don't need to guess which one is more European/Western!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top