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Old 03-02-2013, 01:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejay1 View Post
they werent born in the Philippines....AMy's mother moved there when she was 10
where are you getting 10? I read 2. So her mother was raised there, she's Filipino.

Someone who moves to America when they're 2 is American.

 
Old 03-02-2013, 04:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom9 View Post
She was actually born down-state in Champaign IL. According to her bio she never lived in the Philippines until she entered the University of Santo Tomas. There is no mention of her residing in any country except the US until she graduated high school in California and went to the Philippines for college and that would have made her 18years old. So your statement that she is not Filipino but rather she is Chinese-American. So ethnically the is Chinese on both sides but culturally she is an American. Simply learning Chinese at home doesn't make one truly Chinese by culture. Although the Chinese born overseas have perhaps stonger ties to their ancestral country than do other peoples. You are, according to scholars on the subject, where you were born and rased until 6 to 8 years of age. So Amy Chua is more American than she is Chinese. I am sure she probably feels that way too.


I believe these scholars on the subject because of personal experience that has proved what they say. My children are Eurasian (the Asian side in Japanese) but they were born in Spain and lived there until the youngest was 10. They all speak Japanese well, they also speak English as they spent their 7 years in the US one is still here. They are totally aware of their Japanese heritage and very proud of it. They do not have one drop of Spanish blood, ethnically speaking, but they all consider themselves Spanish. So is it up to the individual or not? Even the Spanish mentioned it often that even though their parents were foreigners the children were born in Spain so they are Spanish. I feel fortunate that we chose a country with that midst. At that time they would have had a much more difficult time in Japan and later even here they faced problems they didn't have to face in Spain. I suppose that, unconciously, re-enforced their "Spanishness"'. So IMO, in the end, environment trumps both race and ethnicity. Following that logic if we take a child of 6months from Africa, put that child in the middle of China when he is twenty he will be Chinese even if he looks African. So if this is true then even Amy's mother is not culturally Chinese. She is Filipino of Chinese extraction. The only time this does not work is if the society ostracizes the child. Two paragraphs is hardly enough to explain the entire theory but it should get things started.

Oh, why did Amy choose tiger mom? That was very Chinese of her in one way. She was born in 1962.
Amy Chua never lived in the Philippines. The one who went to the University of Santo Tomas is her mother. Amy Chua was born in Illionois and grew up in the US. She is American whose parents are both of Chinese ancestry but grew up in the Philippines (so Chinese Filipino).

Anyway, I don't even think of Amy Chua as someone who is strongly feminist, to go back to the original topic.
 
Old 03-02-2013, 06:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by minibrings View Post
I was thinking the same thing. Both her parents had/have Philippine Citizenship (not Chinese) and are from the Philippines. So her parents are Filipino.

The Philippines changed their laws to allow dual nationality.. so she does qualify if she wants a Philippine passport.
Actually, her parents most likely did not have Filipino citizenship. Most Chinese in the Philippines were not naturalized until the 1970s. Since they left for the USA before that, it's most likely they were actually Chinese nationals.

Also, even if her parents were Filipino citizens, the Philippines did not allow dual nationality back then. Even with the new law, only natural-born Filipinos may be able to hold dual citizenship. Since Amy Chua was born in the US and got American citizenship there, I don't think she qualifies as natural-born Filipino.
 
Old 03-02-2013, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Chicago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haowen Wong View Post
In response to Trimac20's post, I wonder why Japanese (and Korean and Taiwanese) culture is so patriarchal, discouraging women from working in white collar professions, and tend to raise very meek, Confucian women.

Asian Americans, however, are very feminist (do you really think Amy Chua the Tiger Mom could be a lawyer at a prestigious Japanese university and be the head of the household in Japan?) I've also noticed that Asian American adolescents are just as pressured as their male peers to get into Science, Tech, Math, and Engineering (STEM) majors, ALL of which are very male dominated, even in America.

Remember, Amy Chua grew up in the Phillippines as a Chinese traditionalist, while many of the adolescent girls I talk of were born in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, etc.

So why the break-away from traditional gender roles, even with 1st generation immigrants?
An excellent topic. There are 2 things to keep in mind:

1) The main reason overt patriarchy still thrives in some parts of the world is precisely because their feminist movements have failed to make as much headway as the feminist movements of the US, Canada and Europe have. What laid the groundwork for the US feminist movement in the 1960s and 1970s was the sudden, mass employment of women in wartime production during WWII. For the first time, women found themselves doing traditionally male work at traditionally male wages. And they did it brilliantly. Yet, after the war, they were expected to quietly give up those jobs and those wages to returning male veterans. The disaffection this created bore fruit a generation later.

2) With few exceptions, traditional gender roles are more strictly enforced among people of lower economic and educational status. The "Asian miracle" in the US is largely an effect of highly selective immigration. Many, if not most, successful Asian immigrants to the US are drawn from the elites of their own societies. In other words, they are drawn from the social class least likely to enforce traditional gender roles.
 
Old 03-02-2013, 07:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
Amy Chua never lived in the Philippines. The one who went to the University of Santo Tomas is her mother. Amy Chua was born in Illionois and grew up in the US. She is American whose parents are both of Chinese ancestry but grew up in the Philippines (so Chinese Filipino).

Anyway, I don't even think of Amy Chua as someone who is strongly feminist, to go back to the original topic.
You are speaking from a technical viewpoint and I agree with that. However my point is about culture and who the person is inside. Amy Chua to me is ethnically Chinese as sure as I am etnically Italian but we are both Americans in thought and action even if we are raised in a first generation home (Amy Chua is not as close to China as I am to Italy as her parents were never raised in the "home country (I am not sure about the father, there is a lot of confusing info out there) but neither of us is what are parents are, we are Americans. That is the point I was attempting to make.

I also agree with you that Amy Chua is not an out and out feminist in the Gloria Allred mode.


In reference to the East Asian patriarchal system I think each country is probably very different> I cannot speak to Mainland China as I have not been there except for Hon Kong and that was when it was still a British colony. I see Korea and Japan as quite different. IMO Korea is far more the Confucian society than Japan. After 10 years in Japan I would class it as what I call a "hidden matriarch". Women have a great deal of power that is only evident within the Japanese family structure. They are a sort of power behind the throne type of individuals. Never flaunting their power (which is the perfect way to maintain it). am basing this on not just my wife but her mother, my two sister-in-laws and other family members in the "clan". In today's world their power is more evident than pre-WWII Japan. Case in point, the leaders of the "Miyaoka clan" for the past two generations have been women and very strong women. I am sure this must be true in other Japanese households but it is most probably not the general rule. My Japanese family is strangely feudal with women running the show. The only place I have been that is similar is in Calabria where women wield al lot more power than anywhere in Southern Italy.

Korean women are far more vocal but in the end appear to have less actual power than the Japanese female. This, in my case, is not based on personal experience but only on personal observation as I have never been a part of a Korean family. As far as China goes, as I said, I have never lived there nor had close connections with the Chinese family structure. I would be interested to know more about it.
 
Old 03-02-2013, 08:35 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom9 View Post
You are speaking from a technical viewpoint and I agree with that. However my point is about culture and who the person is inside. Amy Chua to me is ethnically Chinese as sure as I am etnically Italian but we are both Americans in thought and action even if we are raised in a first generation home (Amy Chua is not as close to China as I am to Italy as her parents were never raised in the "home country (I am not sure about the father, there is a lot of confusing info out there) but neither of us is what are parents are, we are Americans. That is the point I was attempting to make.

I also agree with you that Amy Chua is not an out and out feminist in the Gloria Allred mode.


In reference to the East Asian patriarchal system I think each country is probably very different> I cannot speak to Mainland China as I have not been there except for Hon Kong and that was when it was still a British colony. I see Korea and Japan as quite different. IMO Korea is far more the Confucian society than Japan. After 10 years in Japan I would class it as what I call a "hidden matriarch". Women have a great deal of power that is only evident within the Japanese family structure. They are a sort of power behind the throne type of individuals. Never flaunting their power (which is the perfect way to maintain it). am basing this on not just my wife but her mother, my two sister-in-laws and other family members in the "clan". In today's world their power is more evident than pre-WWII Japan. Case in point, the leaders of the "Miyaoka clan" for the past two generations have been women and very strong women. I am sure this must be true in other Japanese households but it is most probably not the general rule. My Japanese family is strangely feudal with women running the show. The only place I have been that is similar is in Calabria where women wield al lot more power than anywhere in Southern Italy.

Korean women are far more vocal but in the end appear to have less actual power than the Japanese female. This, in my case, is not based on personal experience but only on personal observation as I have never been a part of a Korean family. As far as China goes, as I said, I have never lived there nor had close connections with the Chinese family structure. I would be interested to know more about it.
I agree. You're both as American as each other. I hate it when people think of Asians as somehow being less _____ whatever nationality and closer to their traditional culture because they're Asian and stand out more. I guess maybe that's the reason why some Asians don't want to loudly proclaim their ethnicity, since people already all kinds of assumptions about them.

Chinese women vary, but I've met plenty who are very headstrong and very much the equal of men. Many Chinese men also seem quite meek and deferential, I just get the sense that people there are more on equal terms. Maybe it's the Communist thing.
 
Old 03-02-2013, 09:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
I agree. You're both as American as each other. I hate it when people think of Asians as somehow being less _____ whatever nationality and closer to their traditional culture because they're Asian and stand out more. I guess maybe that's the reason why some Asians don't want to loudly proclaim their ethnicity, since people already all kinds of assumptions about them.

Chinese women vary, but I've met plenty who are very headstrong and very much the equal of men. Many Chinese men also seem quite meek and deferential, I just get the sense that people there are more on equal terms. Maybe it's the Communist thing.

Yes I often wonder why Western people (in the US and I suppose in Australia as well) seem to consider Asians as less_____nationality as well. Growing up in Southern California most of my classmates and friends were second and third generation Japanese and 4th or 5th generation of Chinese background. So our relationships may be called inter-racial but certainly not inter-cultural. We all liked the same music, food etc. Relationships were as simple and normal as with any other American. I had a high school girlfriend who was a third generation Japanese. She often remarked that coming to my house was like visiting a different country because my folks were Italian immigrantes and spoke the language at home, the food etc. Boy that girl could put away my ma's cooking like nobody you ever saw. Pasta and other Italian based food was more common to her than sushi or sukiyaki. She often said the only things Japanese about her was her name and her face. When I decided to go to Japan to study she thought I was totally crazy. Who would want to leave the US for Japan? You had to be nuts to do that.
 
Old 03-02-2013, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Charlotte North Carolina
1,527 posts, read 2,328,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom9 View Post
Yes I often wonder why Western people (in the US and I suppose in Australia as well) seem to consider Asians as less_____nationality as well. Growing up in Southern California most of my classmates and friends were second and third generation Japanese and 4th or 5th generation of Chinese background. So our relationships may be called inter-racial but certainly not inter-cultural. We all liked the same music, food etc. Relationships were as simple and normal as with any other American. I had a high school girlfriend who was a third generation Japanese. She often remarked that coming to my house was like visiting a different country because my folks were Italian immigrantes and spoke the language at home, the food etc. Boy that girl could put away my ma's cooking like nobody you ever saw. Pasta and other Italian based food was more common to her than sushi or sukiyaki. She often said the only things Japanese about her was her name and her face. When I decided to go to Japan to study she thought I was totally crazy. Who would want to leave the US for Japan? You had to be nuts to do that.
Tom9 would you consider these guys to be filipino??









 
Old 03-02-2013, 09:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejay1 View Post
Tom9 would you consider these guys to be filipino??








The individual photos are certainly not the stereotype of the filipino male. But as you have often said the Philippines is a kind of melting pot of its own. Many of the those men look very Spanish (again not the stereotype Spaniard who is often portrayed by the typical Andalusian). The group photo is kind of all over the map. I think one could make a very similar montage using Mexicans.

The western model you pictured on the other thread (dress in a kimono and the umbrella) actually reminded me of a Filipina classmate of mine in Japan who was half Dutch and half indigenous Filipino.
 
Old 03-02-2013, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Charlotte North Carolina
1,527 posts, read 2,328,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom9 View Post
The individual photos are certainly not the stereotype of the filipino male. But as you have often said the Philippines is a kind of melting pot of its own. Many of the those men look very Spanish (again not the stereotype Spaniard who is often portrayed by the typical Andalusian). The group photo is kind of all over the map. I think one could make a very similar montage using Mexicans.

The western model you pictured on the other thread (dress in a kimono and the umbrella) actually reminded me of a Filipina classmate of mine in Japan who was half Dutch and half indigenous Filipino.
they are mostly basque and castillians

culturally they have more in common with a christianized indonesian then a anglo-saxon morman
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