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Old 03-21-2013, 07:41 PM
 
138 posts, read 643,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Both the Thai and the Vietnamese people have their origin in what is now China, although I think the Vietnamese people largely moved from their probable homeland around Guangxi province over 2,500 years ago, although they seem genetically quite similar to the people living in Southern China right now. Both are probably a mix of Northeast Asians and the 'natives' of Southern China prior to the Chinese expansion. The Dai ethnic group actually cannot be equated with the Thais, who are a diverse group with many origins. Many now believe that as is often the case, many Thai have roots going back long before the Dai migration of the 12-13th centuries AD, which is why they look more SE Asian than the Dai ethnic group, who look more like their neighbouring Han.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Both the Thai and the Vietnamese people have their origin in what is now China, although I think the Vietnamese people largely moved from their probable homeland around Guangxi province over 2,500 years ago, although they seem genetically quite similar to the people living in Southern China right now. Both are probably a mix of Northeast Asians and the 'natives' of Southern China prior to the Chinese expansion. The Dai ethnic group actually cannot be equated with the Thais, who are a diverse group with many origins. Many now believe that as is often the case, many Thai have roots going back long before the Dai migration of the 12-13th centuries AD, which is why they look more SE Asian than the Dai ethnic group, who look more like their neighbouring Han.
Quote:
he Thai and the Vietnamese people have their origin in what is now China, although I think the Vietnamese people largely moved from their probable homeland around Guangxi province over 2,500 years ago
I disagreed. Where did you get the theory of Vietnamese are from China from? Most of the theory on the internets alway say that Vietnamese are people whom have been living in the land of Southeast for over 20,000 years. There is no evidence at all that Vietnamese are from China, no migrantion evidence, no evidence about language ralated and also Vietnameses I have seen look more Southeast Asian than Thai I met. Thai has clearly migrantion evidence that they are from China.

Quote:
although they seem genetically quite similar to the people living in Southern China right now
From what I met Thais phenotype look more similar to S.Chinese than Vietnamese.

Quote:
Thais, who are a diverse group with many origins
Both Vietnamese and Thai are diverse ok? You also can't say that which is more or which is less diverse. They obviously equal diverse.

 
Old 03-21-2013, 07:46 PM
 
138 posts, read 643,564 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by furbygrl View Post
Genetically southern chinese and southern east asians are all similar.

Viet-Muong the linguistic group Vietnamese is classified under is thought to have originated around southern Laos and Vietnam border area. Here you find the highest linguistic diversity among the Viet-Muong group. This hypothesis is accepted by academia. In fact Vietnamese migration can be said to be a southern to northern migration based on linguistic evidence.

Guangxi both eastern and western are Zhuang domains. There are no documented records or evidence of Vietnamese ever being in Guangxi prior to the recent migration of Kinh minorties in southern Guangxi Vietnam border.
I agreed. There are no evidence at all that Vietnamese ever migrants from China. Vietnamese are originally lives in Southeast at first place but they just happened to get ruled by Han-Chinese, but the Vietnamese/Kinh race itself never had any history that they are from China. So we could safely say that Vietnamese are originally Southeast Asian(Mon-khmer) at first place but just get ruled by Han-Chinese.
 
Old 03-21-2013, 08:06 PM
 
138 posts, read 643,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
The spread of genes don't often correspond to languages. The Vietnamese clearly have a more northerly origin, as can be seen from their features. Most South-East Asians today come from China (although if you go back further there was probably a south to north migration). Maybe at that time they were not known as Vietnamese, but a lot of the people who inhabited the area eventually became the Vietnamese.
Quote:
The Vietnamese clearly have a more northerly origin
Why do you think like that anyway? Since every evidence shown that Thai are definitely have more of northerly origin than Vietnamese.

Quote:
as can be seen from their features
Features comparison

Vietnamese(Hanoi)



Thai(Chiang-Mai)





Thai horde are obviously look more northerner thai Vietnamese.
 
Old 03-21-2013, 08:14 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,369,517 times
Reputation: 11862
^ Lol your claims are ridiculous. 20,000 years ago SEA was populated by people like this:


Not the pale, small-eyed Hanoi school girls. Many people often confuse Vietnamese and Chinese. I've been to Vietnam and I've seen them. I could easily pass for a Vietnamese. Also, Vietnam was once actually ruled from southern China.

I mean they had a more northerly origin than Vietnam. Both the Thais and Viets came from Southern China, it doesn't take a geneticist to make that conclusion.

Last edited by picmod; 01-10-2014 at 06:25 PM..
 
Old 03-22-2013, 12:06 AM
 
138 posts, read 643,564 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
^ Lol your claims are ridiculous. 20,000 years ago SEA was populated by people like this:



Not the pale, small-eyed Hanoi school girls. Many people often confuse Vietnamese and Chinese. I've been to Vietnam and I've seen them. I could easily pass for a Vietnamese. Also, Vietnam was once actually ruled from southern China.

I mean they had a more northerly origin than Vietnam. Both the Thais and Viets came from Southern China, it doesn't take a geneticist to make that conclusion.
Original Vietnamese are definitely not from Southern China. Those you see are those whom alredy mixed with Chinese. pure Vietnamese without Chinese mix = Mon-Khmer. Some Vietnamese may related to Chinese if they mixed with Chinese but those who are pure Vietnamese are definitely not related to Chinese. By the way, the Thai are related to S.Chinese even without mix with Chinese.

I am not making this up, you could just look up in here.
Link: History of Vietnam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Both the Thais and Viets came from Southern China, it doesn't take a geneticist to make that conclusion.
Like I said, there are no evidence that Vietnamese are from China ok? But there are clearly evidence that Thai are really from China.

Link: Peopling of Thailand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And if you are going to talk about phenotype, Like I said that Thais are also look more Northerner than Vietnameses. Just look in the video that I gave you. Both are from Northern area of both countries(Chiang-Mai vs Hanoi), so it's a fair comparison. Thais are still appeared to look more Northerner than Vietnamese.
 
Old 03-22-2013, 01:21 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,369,517 times
Reputation: 11862




I took these in Hanoi myself.

Show me examples of supposedly 'pure' Viets not mixed with Chinese. Even the darkest Viets looked Austronesians, not like the Negritos, who have lived in SE Asia for 4,000 years maximum. But these individuals were exceptional and mostly Cham/Khmer. The vast majority of Viets look very similar to S. Chinese, so it's safe to say that's where they come from. The Red River valley was so close to China, that the civilisation also included people living in what is now China today. It says human settlement goes back to 20,000 but those people looked very different to the people there today, as is the case in SE Asia as a whole.
 
Old 03-23-2013, 01:20 PM
 
4 posts, read 25,031 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
The spread of genes don't often correspond to languages. The Vietnamese clearly have a more northerly origin, as can be seen from their features. Most South-East Asians today come from China (although if you go back further there was probably a south to north migration). Maybe at that time they were not known as Vietnamese, but a lot of the people who inhabited the area eventually became the Vietnamese.
Sure genes and language dont always correlate but its a base and standard we follow. Vietnamese is a proven Austroasiatic language at its core with Tai elements and heavy sinitic influence. Vietnamese genes clearly show Sinitic, Taic, and Austroasiatic dna. This correlates with Vietnamese history and origin. Looks can be deceiving. Vietnamese of today are not the same as the small Viet-Muong tribe who migrated from southern laos vietnam border to red river delta, they are a hybrid of many ethnics.

Last edited by furbygrl; 03-23-2013 at 02:47 PM..
 
Old 03-23-2013, 02:36 PM
 
4 posts, read 25,031 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezio_Auditore View Post
Original Vietnamese are definitely not from Southern China. Those you see are those whom alredy mixed with Chinese. pure Vietnamese without Chinese mix = Mon-Khmer. Some Vietnamese may related to Chinese if they mixed with Chinese but those who are pure Vietnamese are definitely not related to Chinese. By the way, the Thai are related to S.Chinese even without mix with Chinese.




Like I said, there are no evidence that Vietnamese are from China ok? But there are clearly evidence that Thai are really from China.

Link: Peopling of Thailand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And if you are going to talk about phenotype, Like I said that Thais are also look more Northerner than Vietnameses. Just look in the video that I gave you. Both are from Northern area of both countries(Chiang-Mai vs Hanoi), so it's a fair comparison. Thais are still appeared to look more Northerner than Vietnamese.
O'God. Please stop. Is this seriously a competition to see who is more Chinese looking?

Vietnamese and Tai-Kadai from southeastern China are identical in looks and phenotype. It's obvious. Vietnamese ancestors lived with Tai speaking people in and around the delta for thousands of years. They share history and culture. It's said the early founding fathers of Vietnamese were Zhuang or part Zhuang. It's safe to say modern Vietnamese are hydrids of Muong, Zhuang, and Chinese from the north.

Peace out

Last edited by furbygrl; 03-23-2013 at 02:48 PM..
 
Old 03-23-2013, 08:23 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,369,517 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by furbygrl View Post
Sure genes and language dont always correlate but its a base and standard we follow. Vietnamese is a proven Austroasiatic language at its core with Tai elements and heavy sinitic influence. Vietnamese genes clearly show Sinitic, Taic, and Austroasiatic dna. This correlates with Vietnamese history and origin. Looks can be deceiving. Vietnamese of today are not the same as the small Viet-Muong tribe who migrated from southern laos vietnam border to red river delta, they are a hybrid of many ethnics.
I ask the question, how close are 'Sinitic' and 'Taic' DNA in the first place. I mean they have similar geographic origin so I imagine they'd already be somewhat close. And what is Austroasiatic DNA, is there even such a concept? Who would you say best represents them today, Cambodians? There are Austroasiatic languages as far away as India but the speaker's are not related to those in SE Asia.
 
Old 03-24-2013, 11:53 AM
 
138 posts, read 643,564 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post



I took these in Hanoi myself.

Show me examples of supposedly 'pure' Viets not mixed with Chinese. Even the darkest Viets looked Austronesians, not like the Negritos, who have lived in SE Asia for 4,000 years maximum. But these individuals were exceptional and mostly Cham/Khmer. The vast majority of Viets look very similar to S. Chinese, so it's safe to say that's where they come from. The Red River valley was so close to China, that the civilisation also included people living in what is now China today. It says human settlement goes back to 20,000 but those people looked very different to the people there today, as is the case in SE Asia as a whole.
These are Thai school students in Chiang-Mai.


Compare to Vietnameses you posted, Thais are still look more northerner.

Quote:
The vast majority of Viets look very similar to S. Chinese, so it's safe to say that's where they come from.
If the vast of Viets look S.Chinese. The vast of Thais will still look way more S.Chinese ok? Becase Thai has clearly evidences that they are from China, unlike Vietnamese that has no evidence at all. All we have is just only an assumption that made by you.

Last edited by Ezio_Auditore; 03-24-2013 at 12:23 PM..
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