U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-23-2013, 03:53 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,241,785 times
Reputation: 2833

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by cholonman View Post
I from Vietnam. I have gone Thailand last year. To I saw that the Thailand people have 3 group: light, mixture, dark, it is same in Southern Vietnam but the Thai darkest is darker than South Vietnamese darkest.

Follow my observer from South Vietnamese in Hochiminh City : skin light=35%, medium= 40%, dark= 25%. While of people have origin from the North Vietnam who living in Hochiminh City: skin light = 70%, medium=30%, dark=0%. I also saw that pure Thai ethnic are the same North Vietnamese as counterpart. I think they are twins.

I heard that the dark people in Thailand be look down? But in Vietnam are not , because the dark mean Southern, where more rich than Northern .
Thai and Vietnamese are different peoples, the north has some of the same minorities Vietnam has like the Hmong. I actually saw quite a few pale people in the South too, especially the women, but yeah still darker than Hanoi.

 
Old 08-23-2013, 05:02 AM
 
649 posts, read 981,781 times
Reputation: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezio_Auditore View Post

By the way the Thai/Dai are originated in South of China and considered as Tai-Kadai ethnic, but move down to Southeast Asia in 13th century. Also the original Tai/Dai genetic are also closely related with in Zhuang/Cantonese in China. Tai/Dai never be invade and rule by Han-Chinese just like Hmong and Zhuang, so culturally their culture aren't close to Han-Chinese culture. By the way genetically they seem to be obviously related to Northeast Asian not any less than Vietnamese. Also Thailand is currently world's bigest Han-Chinese Comunity outside of China, there are 9.5 millions of pure 100% Han-Chinese. Also estimated over 50% of total population are Han-Chinese hybird (30million are Thai-Chinese). So genetically I think Thai are more related to Chinese than Vietnamese .
Race is actually an easier science than many people make it out to be. Just look at the face.

Other than the Chinese people in Thailand (Thai-Chinese) Overseas Chinese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which you are right is 9.3 million people, Thailand is not a predominantly Chinese country unlike HongKong, Taiwan and Singapore. 9.3million is a small percentage of Thailand's population which is 66 million. Thailand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I go to Bangkok and Phuket for vacations often when I visit Southeast Asia. The Thai people walking around DO NOT look anything like the people of Chinese descent in Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Shanghai, Beijing, Suzhou, Hangzhou, San Francisco, Los Angeles.

The interesting thing about Singapore, such a microstate small island, is that its the only 'country' outside of Greater China that has a majority Chinese population, making it a little Chinese outpost in my opinion. Lol. Who knows if one day China gets brave enough and turns into a big time imperialist bully, it might want to annex it.

The term Greater China refers to the empire of China with its territories Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macau. Greater China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Old 08-23-2013, 05:17 AM
 
4 posts, read 5,340 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadgirl80 View Post
Race is actually an easier science than many people make it out to be. Just look at the face.

Other than the Chinese people in Thailand (Thai-Chinese) [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_Chinese"]Overseas Chinese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL] which you are right is 9.3 million people, Thailand is not a predominantly Chinese country unlike HongKong, Taiwan and Singapore. 9.3million is a small percentage of Thailand's population which is 66 million. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thailand"]Thailand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

I go to Bangkok and Phuket for vacations often when I visit Southeast Asia. The Thai people walking around DO NOT look anything like the people of Chinese descent in Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Shanghai, Beijing, Suzhou, Hangzhou, San Francisco, Los Angeles.

The interesting thing about Singapore, such a microstate small island, is that its the only 'country' outside of Greater China that has a majority Chinese population, making it a Chinese outpost in my opinion. Lol.

The term Greater China refers to the empire of China with its territories Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macau. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_China"]Greater China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]
I visited Thailand Bangkok/Phuket/Chiang Mai/Chiang Rai. I don't see any dark looking one around Northern areas in like Chiang Mai/Chiang Rai, 95% of people are light and look Chinese. Bangkok and areas around Bangkok are 70% light with 30% of dark. In Southern area like Phuket I see some dark and a few light when I walk around the street so I would say 35% light 65% dark.

From what I heard Thai Chinese are generally populated around center Thailand but there are also a few Khmer ethnic too, for Northern Thai people said they are originally pure Thai, For Southern Thai in phuket mostly seem to be Malay with some of oversea Chinese came from boat.

Last edited by AreaOfEffect; 08-23-2013 at 05:35 AM..
 
Old 08-23-2013, 05:32 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,241,785 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadgirl80 View Post
Race is actually an easier science than many people make it out to be. Just look at the face.

Other than the Chinese people in Thailand (Thai-Chinese) Overseas Chinese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia which you are right is 9.3 million people, Thailand is not a predominantly Chinese country unlike HongKong, Taiwan and Singapore. 9.3million is a small percentage of Thailand's population which is 66 million. Thailand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I go to Bangkok and Phuket for vacations often when I visit Southeast Asia. The Thai people walking around DO NOT look anything like the people of Chinese descent in Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Shanghai, Beijing, Suzhou, Hangzhou, San Francisco, Los Angeles.

The interesting thing about Singapore, such a microstate small island, is that its the only 'country' outside of Greater China that has a majority Chinese population, making it a little Chinese outpost in my opinion. Lol. Who knows if one day China gets brave enough and turns into a big time imperialist bully, it might want to annex it.

The term Greater China refers to the empire of China with its territories Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macau. Greater China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
They estimate up to 40% of Thailand's population is part Chinese (the Dai themselves came from China so it gets a bit blurry, since they might've mixed with Han too before they came, of course I think some Thais were there before the Dai, it's a multi-ethnic country). In Bangkok this figure rises to nearly 80%. Walking around Bangkok a lot of people look Chinese.

And God forbid China ever annex Singapore...if the Singapore government keeps letting so many from the PRC in they might not have to. While English is increasing so is Mandarin. Most Singaporeans though are Singaporean first, that's their nationality. Long gone are the days when the Singaporean Chinese felt much of an affinity to the nation of China (at least the younger ones) or where they felt more loyalty to China than Singapore.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 05:35 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,241,785 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by AreaOfEffect View Post
I visited Thailand Bangkok/Phuket/Chiang Mai/Chiang Rai. I don't see any dark looking one around Northern areas in like Chiang Mai/Chiang Rai, 95% of people are light and look Chinese. Bangkok and areas around Bangkok are 70% light with 30% of dark. In Southern area like Phuket I see some dark and a few light when I walk around the street so I would say 35% light 65% dark.

From what I heard Thai Chinese are generally populated around center Thailand, for Northern Thai people said they are originally pure Thai, For Southern Thai in phuket mostly seem to be Malay with some of oversea Chinese came from boat.
I don't think Phuket is mostly Malay but the southern provinces are. A lot of people with Chinese ancestry too. A lot of Thais have Chinese ancestry (like many of the prime ministers and kings) but I think most identify more as Thais in terms of ethnicity than say those in Malaysia who seem themselves as Chinese Malaysians or Chinese in Malaysia.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 05:36 AM
 
649 posts, read 981,781 times
Reputation: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Both are probably a mix of Northeast Asians and the 'natives' of Southern China prior to the Chinese expansion. The Dai ethnic group actually cannot be equated with the Thais, who are a diverse group with many origins. Many now believe that as is often the case, many Thai have roots going back long before the Dai migration of the 12-13th centuries AD, which is why they look more SE Asian than the Dai ethnic group, who look more like their neighbouring Han.
Quote:
Originally Posted by furbygrl View Post
Genetically southern chinese and southern east asians are all similar.
May I ask what is your idea of the term you used "natives of Southern China" and for furbygrl "southern Chinese"?

Southeast Asians today (other than the Chinese-dominated island country Singapore) are NOT racially Southern Chinese at all, there's no similarity at all. Please finally get that.

Southern China (please refer to a map, this one is good as it actually shows the provinces http://site.chinafinds.com/travel/wp...1/mapChina.gif) today composes of provinces like Fujian (which composes of the Shantou area) and Guangdong. Hainan Island as well.

These people are Han Chinese. Now let's look at the key territories that received immigrants from these areas that today form the majority population of these said territories. Hong Kong (Cantonese speaking people from the Guangdong province), Taiwan (99% Han Chinese,they are immigrants from the Fujian province) and Singapore (75% Han Chinese from Fujian, Guangdong and Hainan provinces).

In other words, the Chinese people you see walking around in cities like Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore are all Han Chinese. And they look alike!

Southeast Asians (majority of them except Singapore) are all non Han-Chinese. They look Malay and look like Pacific Islanders. They don't look like Han Chinese and they don't look like people who live in those cities I named above.

This is how a Taiwanese woman looks like. Chiling Lin - Gallery Photo Colection | Digital Library Amazing

This is how a typical Hong Kong woman who's good looking looks like No Love for Gillian Chung in the Next Two Years?*|*JayneStars.com

This is how a Singapore woman looks like
Fann Wong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Geisha and Pirate's! Ai Maeda and Johnny Depp!

Han Chinese today compose of 92 per cent of the total population of China!

Han Chinese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mainland China, Hong Kong and Macau[edit source | editbeta]
The vast majority of Han Chinese over 1.2 billion live in areas under the jurisdiction of the People's Republic of China (PRC), where they constitute about 92% of its population. Within the People's Republic of China, Han Chinese are the majority in every province, municipality, and autonomous region except for the autonomous regions of Xinjiang (41% as of 2000) and Tibet (6% as of 2000). Han Chinese also constitute the majority in both of the special administrative regions of the PRC, about 95% of the population of Hong Kong[16] and about 96% of the population of Macau.[17]

The Han Chinese in the South do not look much more different, especially in their skin color from the Northern Chinese, another piece of rubbish I've seen a lot of both white supremacists and curious interested white people who have no knowledge about a region across the globe from them spreading online based on their own ignorance or falsehoods they hear from Americans of Southeast Asian descent. Han Chinese look the same!! You do not magically become darker or look different by moving to another part of your country, I'm sorry. Just like how I and my bloodline will not be altered even if I moved to Dallas from Denver tomorrow. Most of the NON Han Chinese in China are in Xinjiang - that autonomous ethnic region in western China that's consistently trying to separate from China.

Han Chinese who moved to Guangzhou or Fujian province, or their descendants who later move downwards to Hong Kong, Taiwan and Singapore do not magically become darker in skin color. Your skin color comes from your race which is genetically fixed at birth when you are born, just refer to baby pictures of Han Chinese in hospitals in Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan. There is only so much sunscreen or tanning lotions you can use to alter it. That's why when I read online rubbish written by white supremacists about the allegation of East Asians using skin bleach I just wanna laugh at them. They're so ignorant. The products sold in East Asian markets called Whitening are not meant to lighten skin color, but to even skin tone because East Asians detest spots and freckles, something that can be considered attractive in the west. There's a cultural unabridged gulf due to lack of understanding and White people made uneducated assumptions about people and things and issues across the world away they don't know anything about, as usual, and they are naive enough to actually think one can lighten one's natural skin color that was given from birth in any dramatic way from some cheap products in a department store for under $300. This is a typical "whitening" product sold in East Asian markets. Its to remove pigmentation, freckles and uneven-ness, brown spots which East Asian women really hate but some white men find cute on white women. Review: Lancome Blanc Expert Spot Eraser and Blanc Expert Whitening Bio-Cellulose Masks | My Women Stuff Read the freaking review, dumb white supremacists. Even the product packaging by Lancome, a European company says "Spot Eraser" and "for radiance".

If it were so easy to lighten one's skin in a dramatic way through the use of such crazily accessible simple means, Michael Jackson wouldn't have needed to go through his Frankenstein routines with his surgeons, and I'm sorry to state the obvious, then Indians and Latinos would be today as white as Northern Europeans and East Asians. (If you live in America, you'll know what I'm talking about)

I don't know if these people of Southeast Asian descent have a problem looking at maps but this isn't the first time I've seen them trying to spread false information and claiming that their ancestry have some kind of origins of Southern Chinese (when Southern Chinese are HAN CHINESE!). Han Chinese form 92% of the population of the whole China. The minor ethnic groups that resided in Southern Chinese provinces were so negligible, and even then ethnic minorities are spread everywhere throughout China, in the North there were many and most are actually in Western China called XINJIANG.

Thais, Filipinos, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Laotians, Malaysians, Indonesian, both the men and the women, don't look anything like the Chinese men and women in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Guangzhou, Shenzhen!

Last edited by sadgirl80; 08-23-2013 at 05:53 AM..
 
Old 08-23-2013, 05:41 AM
 
4 posts, read 5,340 times
Reputation: 10
Anyone have experience with Chinese-Vietnamese? Do they generally identify themselves as Chinese or Vietnamese?
 
Old 08-23-2013, 05:47 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,241,785 times
Reputation: 2833
Well the people who were living south of the Yangtze before the major expansion of the Chinese kingdoms, during the Han and subsequently dynasties like the Ming. There were states like Bai-yue in Fujian and Guangdong, as well. Chinese sources describe these people as scantily dressed and wearing tattoos. I think they were like the Taiwanese aborigines, who are an Austronesian people like Malays, Javanese, Filipinos, Polynesians, Malagasy. When the Chinese expanded south they intermarried with the locals, mainly Chinese men with local women, that is why Southern Chinese tend to look different to Northern Chinese (the differences can be subtle, but they're definitely there). Genetic testing has supported this hypothesis. Just how much 'aboriginal' blood the Southern Chinese have is debatable and varies a lot. Remember, the movement of people from north to south continued well after the Ming and Tang and indeed continues today, so it's not a hard and fast rule. The Hakka, for instance, tend to look more northern (e.g. Lee Kwan Yew) because they came later from the north were genetically rather isolated.

Most South East Asian peoples have their recent origins in China. This include the Dai/Thai, probably the Austronesians and Austroasiatic peoples. They are different to the Han though because they were not Sinified. Prior to this, there might've also been a reverse migration from SEA to China and north. Many SEA's look more Chinese than Malay, especially in northern Thailand, parts of Laos and Vietnam. Also 'Han Chinese' is not a race but an ethnicity that is controversial. There are many ideas about when this concept originated. It may have been all those people who lived within the borders of the Han dynasty's territory, or later. Genetically, the ethnic minorities of China are only really distinguished from the Han by culture with exceptions like Uyghurs, Tibetans, Mongols.etc which are often course still related to China. They are also genetically diverse...Hainanese look very different to those from Heilionjiang, because Hainanese have some Tai and maybe Viet mixture, and those in Manchuria have Manchu/Mongol mixture.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 05:48 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,241,785 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by AreaOfEffect View Post
Anyone have experience with Chinese-Vietnamese? Do they generally identify themselves as Chinese or Vietnamese?
Apparently a lot of Vietnamese who fled after 1975 were Sino-Vietnamese, or 'Hoa' (as they are known in Vietnam, as one of the 54 ethnic minority groups). The ones here, you might not even know they are Hoa. I think in Vietnam it varies, although in general they're probably in between Thailand and Malaysia in terms of integration. Cantonese and Teochew are the two most common dialects, except in central Vietnam.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 05:55 AM
 
649 posts, read 981,781 times
Reputation: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
The Hakka, for instance, tend to look more northern (e.g. Lee Kwan Yew) because they came later from the north were genetically rather isolated.
Hakkas are Han Chinese. I assure you that Han Chinese who form 75 per cent of Singapore population look very much like Lee Kuan Yew, and most Singaporeans are not Hakka but are from Fujian and Guangdong. Hakka by the way are "guest" people, nomadic, so the term is not geographically defining.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Most South East Asian peoples have their recent origins in China. This include the Dai/Thai, probably the Austronesians and Austroasiatic peoples. They are different to the Han though because they were not Sinified. Prior to this, there might've also been a reverse migration from SEA to China and north. Many SEA's look more Chinese than Malay, especially in northern Thailand, parts of Laos and Vietnam. Also 'Han Chinese' is not a race but an ethnicity that is controversial. There are many ideas about when this concept originated. It may have been all those people who lived within the borders of the Han dynasty's territory, or later. Genetically, the ethnic minorities of China are only really distinguished from the Han by culture with exceptions like Uyghurs, Tibetans, Mongols.etc which are often course still related to China. They are also genetically diverse...Hainanese look very different to those from Heilionjiang, because Hainanese have some Tai and maybe Viet mixture, and those in Manchuria have Manchu/Mongol mixture.
Their admixture might be from the ethnic minorities but not Han Chinese. They're also mixed with Pacific Islanders and most of them are Malays (Filipino, Indonesian, Malaysian-Malay, Cambodia, Myanmar, Laos)
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top