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Old 08-23-2013, 06:03 AM
 
649 posts, read 982,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Well the people who were living south of the Yangtze before the major expansion of the Chinese kingdoms, during the Han and subsequently dynasties like the Ming. There were states like Bai-yue in Fujian and Guangdong, as well. Chinese sources describe these people as scantily dressed and wearing tattoos. I think they were like the Taiwanese aborigines, who are an Austronesian people like Malays, Javanese, Filipinos, Polynesians, Malagasy.

When the Chinese expanded south they intermarried with the locals, mainly Chinese men with local women, that is why Southern Chinese tend to look different to Northern Chinese (the differences can be subtle, but they're definitely there). Genetic testing has supported this hypothesis. Just how much 'aboriginal' blood the Southern Chinese have is debatable and varies a lot.
Can you show me proof that majority of Han Chinese in the Southern provinces/cities are today are mixed with the ethnic minorities because of intermarriage?

I am Han Chinese born overseas and I still have family (who are themselves overseas born Han Chinese) who live in Singapore so I am very familiar with this subject. I also travel to East Asian AND Southeast Asian countries/cities very regularly.

Can you, using simple pictures, show me how startlingly different a typical Han Chinese in a Southern province like Fann Wong of Singapore, Gillian Chung of Hong Kong, Lin Chiling of Taiwan, soft porn actress Vivian Hsu http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivian_Hsu look different from Han Chinese from Northern province eg Ziyi Zhang?

Race is actually a much easier science than people think. People launch into abstract DNA hoopla that they themselves do not understand and look for information that they sift out from a sea of information that correlates to what they already hope for.

Its like why do people have problems telling apart Chinese, Japanese and Koreans (these three are the same race) and no white person will mistake a Mexican or a Somali for a Chinese? Because race is easy to tell apart, just look at the face. Lol.

 
Old 08-23-2013, 06:08 AM
 
51 posts, read 203,090 times
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Actually, thai skin tones aren't dark but environment such as strong sun make them have many skin tones. In Thailand, almost rich people have beautiful skin coz they don't expose to strong sun.
Thai are tai.they don't want to look like other countries. They never been colonized by others country. Although Thailand isn't the most developed country in asia but this country fascinate and charm the tourists all over the world
 
Old 08-23-2013, 06:08 AM
 
649 posts, read 982,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
I don't think Phuket is mostly Malay but the southern provinces are. A lot of people with Chinese ancestry too. A lot of Thais have Chinese ancestry (like many of the prime ministers and kings) but I think most identify more as Thais in terms of ethnicity than say those in Malaysia who seem themselves as Chinese Malaysians or Chinese in Malaysia.
Most of the Thais I see in Phuket look no different from Malays in Malaysia and Indonesia and Filipinos.

The Chinese looking people you see in Thailand are Thai of pure Chinese ancestry (with Chinese names and all, and they can speak Chinese, just like a Chinese American born in the US can also speak bad Chinese). There are 9 million Han Chinese of Thai nationality out of 66 million Thai nationals.

My uncle who migrated to the UK already married a Thai Chinese. She is pure Han Chinese and looks like any other Singaporean.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,248,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sadgirl80 View Post
Hakkas are Han Chinese. I assure you that Han Chinese who form 75 per cent of Singapore population look very much like Lee Kuan Yew, and most Singaporeans are not Hakka but are from Fujian and Guangdong. Hakka by the way are "guest" people, nomadic, so the term is not geographically defining.



Their admixture might be from the ethnic minorities but not Han Chinese. They're also mixed with Pacific Islanders and most of them are Malays (Filipino, Indonesian, Malaysian-Malay, Cambodia, Myanmar, Laos)
Lol I'm Singaporean by birth, my mother is Singaporean, and I've been back there about 12 times so I think I know what Singaporeans look like. Yes, some look Northern, I'm not denying that, but in general if I look at the people walking down Orchard Road or the MRT I can tell they look different from those in Beijing or Xian, which I've been to. There are many mainland Chinese here as students.etc and I can usually tell them just from looks from Singaporeans, Malaysians.etc...of course some are from S.China but many are from N.China. For one they tend to be taller, have smaller eyes, flat noses are less common, and tend to be somewhat paler. Also remember Singapore has taken in many people from China.

Well Dai, Lao, Hmong, Karen.etc all came from China, e.g. Yunnan, Guizhou, Guangxi, so it's not surprising they resemble Southern Han. Viet were ruled by China for 1000 years, so there's some Han admixture plus they are a similar people to the natives of Southern China, which is why Vietnamese and Southern Chinese look similar.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 06:19 AM
 
649 posts, read 982,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Apparently a lot of Vietnamese who fled after 1975 were Sino-Vietnamese, or 'Hoa' (as they are known in Vietnam, as one of the 54 ethnic minority groups). The ones here, you might not even know they are Hoa. I think in Vietnam it varies, although in general they're probably in between Thailand and Malaysia in terms of integration. Cantonese and Teochew are the two most common dialects, except in central Vietnam.
There are a lot of Han Chinese who fled China for Vietnam during that period and later they migrated to the US (TX has lots of them), Australia, UK in droves. They are actually racially Han Chinese but they do not know and go round saying they are Vietnamese.

I have always find this topic fascinating as a person of double mixed culture.

Its something that Chinese-Americans with ancestors who came to the US from Taiwan grapple with also. Taiwanese people hate referring themselves as Chinese, especially the Taiwanese in Taiwan. The ones in the US, I think its about half. The other half thinks its dumb.

My mother is Chinese-American and my dad is Chinese Singaporean (he's since become an American). Do I call myself a Singaporean-American? That's just stupid. Cos Singapore is not an ancestry. Its not a race because it doesn't even have its own defining culture, being an immigrant country. Singapore IS a Chinese country.

The whole American idea of the hyphenate is that you identify yourself as an American, but being that America is a melting pot, we add an hyphen and we also identify ourselves with our ancestry (where our ancestors traveled from, no matter how long ago) so you have Italian American, Irish American, German American, Chinese American, Korean American, etc.

Luckily some Chinese Americans with Taiwanese and Hong Konger parents are smart enough to know that to say you're Tawanese-American or Hongkonger-American is just dumb.

Last edited by sadgirl80; 08-23-2013 at 06:33 AM..
 
Old 08-23-2013, 06:20 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,248,336 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadgirl80 View Post
Can you show me proof that majority of Han Chinese in the Southern provinces/cities are today are mixed with the ethnic minorities because of intermarriage?

I am Han Chinese born overseas and I still have family (who are themselves overseas born Han Chinese) who live in Singapore so I am very familiar with this subject. I also travel to East Asian AND Southeast Asian countries/cities very regularly.

Can you, using simple pictures, show me how startlingly different a typical Han Chinese in a Southern province like Fann Wong of Singapore, Gillian Chung of Hong Kong, Lin Chiling of Taiwan, soft porn actress Vivian Hsu Vivian Hsu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia look different from Han Chinese from Northern province eg Ziyi Zhang?

Race is actually a much easier science than people think. People launch into abstract DNA hoopla that they themselves do not understand and look for information that they sift out from a sea of information that correlates to what they already hope for.

Its like why do people have problems telling apart Chinese, Japanese and Koreans (these three are the same race) and no white person will mistake a Mexican or a Somali for a Chinese? Because race is easy to tell apart, just look at the face. Lol.
I'm not going to dig up the articles, but even without scientific proof I can easily tell...my sister is often mistaken for Thai or Filipino, and I've never seen anyone who looks like her in Beijing. I've seen her look mostly in Vietnam and also a bit in Japan (even in Fujian province or among Chinese Singaporeans it's not a common look though). There are just some people who so obviously look nothing like northern Han.

People can't tell them apart because they don't know what to look for. My strike rate isn't 100% but I can often tell apart the three groups. Han Chinese from BEIJING are actually equally distant from people in Hanoi as Tokyo, so southern Chinese are closer to Vietnamese than Japanese. Koreans are close to Manchurians, and somewhat related to northern Han and Mongolians. Japanese probably have a few origins, the Jomon people seem more Austronesian.

Mexican and Somali are way more different than Chinese and Japanese, obviously.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 06:21 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,248,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keenuleeve View Post
Actually, thai skin tones aren't dark but environment such as strong sun make them have many skin tones. In Thailand, almost rich people have beautiful skin coz they don't expose to strong sun.
Thai are tai.they don't want to look like other countries. They never been colonized by others country. Although Thailand isn't the most developed country in asia but this country fascinate and charm the tourists all over the world
Thai people are quite diverse. I think among wealthier Thai those with Chinese ancestry are overrepresented (like Indonesia) and also take care to stay out of the sun. They sometimes also use whiteners.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 06:26 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,248,336 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadgirl80 View Post
There are a lot of Han Chinese who fled China for Vietnam during that period and later they migrated to the US (TX has lots of them), Australia, UK in droves. They are actually racially Han Chinese but they do not know and go round saying they are Vietnamese.

I have always find this topic fascinating as a person of double mixed culture.

Its something that Chinese-Americans with ancestors who came to the US from Taiwan grapple with also. Taiwanese people hate referring themselves as Chinese, especially the Taiwanese in Taiwan. The ones in the US, I think its about half. The other half thinks its dumb.

My mother is Chinese-American and my dad is Chinese Singaporean (he's since become an American). Do I call myself a Singaporean-American? That's just stupid. Cos Singapore is not an ancestry. Its not a race because it doesn't even have its own defining culture, being an immigrant country. Singapore IS a Chinese country.

The whole American idea of the hyphenate is that you identify yourself as an American, but being that America is a melting pot, we add an hyphen and we also identify ourselves with our ancestry (where our ancestry traveled from, no matter how long ago) so you have Italian American, Irish American, German American, Chinese American, Korean American, etc.

Luckily some Chinese Americans with Taiwanese parents are smart enough to know that to say you're Tawanese-American or Hongkonger-American is just dumb.
Some identify primarily as Vietnamese, some as Hoa, some as Chinese. It depends.

Taiwan is a complex situation. In Taiwan, some identify as Taiwanese and Chinese, some as Chinese and some as Taiwanese not Chinese. Taiwan is like what Australia is to Britain. It has it's own identity as well. A study suggests most Taiwanese have some aboriginal mixture. I've been to Taiwan, there are also other influences - e.g. Japanese - that make Taiwan different from China. Taiwanese Americans should identify however they want to.

My parents are from Singapore and Malaysia, but I consider myself Australian first (I was born in Singapore but came here as a baby), then Singaporean, then Chinese, since my ancestors left China a long time ago. I don't speak Mandarin or a Chinese language, so I can't really claim to be truly ethnically Chinese, although I do acknowledge my roots. I may have some Malay etc too.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 06:26 AM
 
4 posts, read 5,342 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadgirl80 View Post
Most of the Thais I see in Phuket look no different from Malays in Malaysia and Indonesia and Filipinos.

The Chinese looking people you see in Thailand are Thai of pure Chinese ancestry (with Chinese names and all, and they can speak Chinese, just like a Chinese American born in the US can also speak bad Chinese). There are 9 million Han Chinese of Thai nationality out of 66 million Thai nationals.

My uncle who migrated to the UK already married a Thai Chinese. She is pure Han Chinese and looks like any other Singaporean.

From what I heard from Thais in Northern/Northeast areas of Thailand, They said that they are originally Dai/Thai, but yet their appereance still look no different from Chinese. Also I see some kind of minority like Hmong/Lisu too, they also look just like Chinese.

So I wouldn't say only Chinese ethnic that could look East Asian in Southeast Asia. There seem to be other ethnics like Thai-Dai/Hmong/ hill tribes too that have look of East Asian.

Another thing is I have some Thai friends too, their apperance look like East Asian just the same as Chinese but none of them tell me that they are Chinese or they be able to speak Chinese or having Chinese name, they only say to me that they are Thai and their name are some form of Thai unique name that not similar to the Chinese name also they said they only speak Thai.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 06:29 AM
 
649 posts, read 982,143 times
Reputation: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
I'm not going to dig up the articles, but even with scientific proof I can easily tell...my sister is often mistaken for Thai or Filipino, and I've never seen anyone who looks like her in Beijing. I've seen her look mostly in Vietnam and also a bit in Japan. There are just some people who so obviously look nothing like northern Han.

People can't tell them apart because they don't know what to look for. My strike rate isn't 100% but I can often tell apart the three groups. Han Chinese from BEIJING are actually equally distant from people in Hanoi as Tokyo, so southern Chinese are closer to Vietnamese than Japanese. Koreans are close to Manchurians, and somewhat related to northern Han and Mongolians. Japanese probably have a few origins, the Jomon people seem more Austronesian.

Mexican and Somali are way more different than Chinese and Japanese, obviously.
You have one sister who looks like one of a handful of dark monkeys I see in Singapore and you make a sweeping statement on Han Chinese women across major cities from Singapore all the way up to Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Hong Kong and say they look like bloody Viets? You're such a crapper but you do make me laugh. And you need to travel.

I go to Hong Kong to shop often. None of the women there look like Viets! Lol. They look like the Chinese Americans in San Fran, yes, and they look like the Han Chinese in Shanghai, who look pretty fashionable nowadays.
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