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Old 08-23-2013, 06:35 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AreaOfEffect View Post
From what I heard from Thais in Northern/Northeast areas of Thailand, They said that they are originally Dai/Thai, but yet their appereance still look no different from Chinese. Also I see some kind of minority like Hmong/Lisu too, they also look just like Chinese.

So I wouldn't say only Chinese ethnic that could look East Asian in Southeast Asia. There seem to be other ethnics like Thai-Dai/Hmong/ hill tribes too that have look of East Asian.

Another thing is I have some Thai friends too, their apperance look like East Asian just the same as Chinese but none of them tell me that they are Chinese or they be able to speak Chinese or having Chinese name, they only say to me that they are Thai and their name are some form of Thai unique name that not similar to the Chinese name also they said they only speak Thai.
Some may not even be aware of their Chinese ancestry. Look at photos or videos of the Dai who still live in China. They look quite Chinese.

Thais all have Thai names, although Chinese Thais sometimes incorporated their Chinese name into their Thai name. Like Thaksin and his sister Yingluck.

 
Old 08-23-2013, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sadgirl80 View Post
You have one sister who looks like one of a handful of dark monkeys I see in Singapore and you make a sweeping statement on Han Chinese women across major cities from Singapore all the way up to Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Hong Kong and say they look like bloody Viets? You're such a crapper but you do make me laugh. And you need to travel.

I go to Hong Kong to shop often. None of the women there look like Viets! Lol. They look like the Chinese Americans in San Fran, yes, and they look like the Han Chinese in Shanghai, who look pretty fashionable nowadays.
Have you even been to Vietnam or China? I've been from Saigon to Hanoi, Hong Kong, Fujian province, Beijing, Xian and Central China. I've seen thousands or even millions of people so I know what I'm talking about. You sound racist, btw, I bet you look down on Malays, Filipinos.etc. Unfortunately some Singaporean Chinese have this attitude, thinking other groups are lower class.

Throughout Vietnam there are women who would easily fit into Hong Kong and vice versa. Since I'm familiar with Vietnamese people I can quite often tell the difference, but they are pretty similar overall.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 06:46 AM
 
649 posts, read 982,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post

Taiwan is a complex situation. In Taiwan, some identify as Taiwanese and Chinese, some as Chinese and some as Taiwanese not Chinese. Taiwan is like what Australia is to Britain. It has it's own identity as well. A study suggests most Taiwanese have some aboriginal mixture. I've been to Taiwan, there are also other influences - e.g. Japanese - that make Taiwan different from China. Taiwanese Americans should identify however they want to.
ROC's population today is 95% Han Chinese. I've read discussions on this before among Chinese Americans, some with Taiwanese parents and some not.

The issue with ROC and PRC is a political one, not a racial one. ROC basically formed after a group of Han Chinese against communism and who believe in democracy lost a civil war. They fled to an island nearby and set up home there. They even officially and openly call themselves Republic of China (ROC). In the same breath, their descendants today are saying they are not Chinese, they look like clowns to the world. This is what even some (not all) Chinese Americans with Taiwanese ancestors concede to. They think these Taiwanese are making a fool of themselves and those who migrated to America or whose parents who migrated to America and who are following the Taiwanese stand on this are fools also. If the Han Chinese in Taiwan are not Chinese, then maybe Taiwan might have a seat in the UN and it wouldn't be calling itself ROC and speaking Chinese (Mandarin).

They are against China because this is purely a political hot potato, not a racial one. China says Taiwan, as a territory belongs to them. Of course being imperialist and rising in power, China wants to claim all the territories that it perceives is occupied by its population under the One-China policy.

The Taiwanese who have any admixture with the aboriginals is negligible in number but is used as a point by the Taiwanese people who are against reunification.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,248,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sadgirl80 View Post
ROC's population today is 95% Han Chinese. I've read discussions on this before among Chinese Americans, some with Taiwanese parents and some not.

The issue with ROC and PRC is a political one, not a racial one. ROC basically formed after a group of Han Chinese against communism and who believe in democracy lost a civil war. They fled to an island nearby and set up home there. They even officially and openly call themselves Republic of China (ROC). In the same breath, their descendants today are saying they are not Chinese, they look like clowns to the world. This is what even some (not all) Chinese Americans with Taiwanese ancestors concede to. They think these Taiwanese are making a fool of themselves and those who migrated to America or whose parents who migrated to America and who are following the Taiwanese stand on this are fools also. If the Han Chinese in Taiwan are not Chinese, then maybe Taiwan might have a seat in the UN and it wouldn't be calling itself ROC and speaking Chinese (Mandarin).

They are against China because this is purely a political hot potato, not a racial one. China says Taiwan, as a territory belongs to them. Of course being imperialist and rising in power, China wants to claim all the territories that it perceives is occupied by its population under the One-China policy.

The Taiwanese who have any admixture with the aboriginals is negligible in number but is used as a point by the Taiwanese people who are against reunification.
Yes it is a political issue and no one is claiming the Taiwanese are a separate 'race' from the Chinese, but politics aside, that doesn't dispel the fact that Taiwanese from China have been there for up to 500 years...that's longer than white Americans. So even if they speak Chinese, and are primarily a Chinese derived culture, why can't they identify themselves as Taiwanese and not Chinese if they wish? It's like Australians. They are largely of British stock, they speak the same language, have the same customs, yet they call themselves Australian not English or Scottish (unless discussing ancestry). A good majority of Taiwanese want to be known as Taiwanese FIRST but that doesn't necessarily mean they don't also see themselves as culturally Chinese.

It's hard to really say what percentage aboriginal Taiwanese are, but going by looks I'd say the admixture is more than negligible. I've been to Taiwan. Most aborigines are part Han too. I think Taiwan should forge it's own identity and be a separate nation. It will never regain China, so should stop dreaming about the ROC.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 06:52 AM
 
649 posts, read 982,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Have you even been to Vietnam or China? I've been from Saigon to Hanoi, Hong Kong, Fujian province, Beijing, Xian and Central China. I've seen thousands or even millions of people so I know what I'm talking about. You sound racist, btw, I bet you look down on Malays, Filipinos.etc. Unfortunately some Singaporean Chinese have this attitude, thinking other groups are lower class.

Throughout Vietnam there are women who would easily fit into Hong Kong and vice versa. Since I'm familiar with Vietnamese people I can quite often tell the difference, but they are pretty similar overall.
I've been to HCM City (Saigon) in Vietnam.

I have been to Hong Kong countless times because I have to travel to China often for my job. I've been to Shanghai, Beijing, Suzhou, Hangzhou, Taipei and Hong Kong, the first two and the last two many times. I go to China about once in four weeks.

There are some women in Saigon who look like Han Chinese but they aren't the majority. Maybe 15%. And there are Vietnamese of Chinese descent so that's the simple reason you see some Vietnamese women who look like Southern Chinese. Its like say, you see a Chinese woman walking about in America. You know she's Chinese, that much is obvious because of where she is walking about. Suddenly this same pure Han Chinese woman walks about in Bangkok or Saigon, and you can't see it anymore because the non Han Chinese around her don't look like diametrical opposites with blue eyes and red hair and you think they're the same??

I'm not racist (None of my best friends are Asian) but I do like to read and I like facts and I don't like them distorted. I'm also interested in lineage because of my own cultural experience.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sadgirl80 View Post
I've been to HCM City (Saigon) in Vietnam.

I have been to Hong Kong countless times because I have to travel to China often for my job. I've been to Shanghai, Beijing, Suzhou, Hangzhou, Taipei and Hong Kong, the first two and the last two many times. I go to China about once in four weeks.

There are some women in Saigon who look like Han Chinese but they aren't the majority. Maybe 15%. And there are Vietnamese of Chinese descent so that's the simple reason you see some Vietnamese women who look like Southern Chinese. Its like say, you see a Chinese woman walking about in America. You know she's Chinese, that much is obvious because of where she is walking about. Suddenly this same pure Han Chinese woman walks about in Bangkok or Saigon, and you can't see it anymore because the non Han Chinese around her don't look like diametrical opposites with blue eyes and red hair and you think they're the same??

I'm not racist (None of my best friends are Asian) but I do like to read and I like facts and I don't like them distorted. I'm also interested in lineage because of my own cultural experience.
Well most Viets don't look EXACTLY like Han, I didn't say that, but they look similar enough. Plus, Han is so diverse...Han from Hainan are probably closer to Viets than Han from Beijing. The height differences in China are obvious: the Cantonese are the shortest, those from Fujian/Zhejiang/Shanghai are medium, and those from Shandong/Beijing/Hebei/Shaanxi tallest. I'm 5'9" and felt short in Beijing. In Hong Kong I feel tall. My Vietnamese friend said most Vietnamese cannot tell the Hoa from sight alone, only when they start speaking.

Also I noticed those Vietnamese in Hanoi look more Chinese. I think they're more 'pure' Viet, because those in HCM are more mixed with Cham and Khmer.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=h...K8KPkwXFl4HIBQ

Many of these girls could easily fit in Taipei or Singapore...

Calling them 'dark monkeys' does sound kinda racist...
 
Old 08-23-2013, 07:03 AM
 
649 posts, read 982,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Yes it is a political issue and no one is claiming the Taiwanese are a separate 'race' from the Chinese, but politics aside, that doesn't dispel the fact that Taiwanese from China have been there for up to 500 years...that's longer than white Americans. So even if they speak Chinese, and are primarily a Chinese derived culture, why can't they identify themselves as Taiwanese and not Chinese if they wish? It's like Australians. They are largely of British stock, they speak the same language, have the same customs, yet they call themselves Australian not English or Scottish (unless discussing ancestry). A good majority of Taiwanese want to be known as Taiwanese FIRST but that doesn't necessarily mean they don't also see themselves as culturally Chinese.

It's hard to really say what percentage aboriginal Taiwanese are, but going by looks I'd say the admixture is more than negligible. I've been to Taiwan. Most aborigines are part Han too. I think Taiwan should forge it's own identity and be a separate nation. It will never regain China, so should stop dreaming about the ROC.
Because those Han Chinese only resisted the Chinese identity AFTER Kuomintang (KMT), became the governing polity on Taiwan in 1945 and not 500 years ago when they moved there from China.

Australians call themselves Australians at home. That's fine and good. Like how Singaporeans who live in Singapore call themselves Singaporeans.

It would be silly if an Australian who migrated to America uses the term Australian-American to identify himself.

Taiwanese-American or HongKong-American as a term is silly, because the idea of the hyphenate is to express your bloodline. This is the view held by myself and some other Chinese Americans, including those with parents who migrated from Taiwan or Hong Kong. This is a free world, at least in some parts, so we're entitled to say as we feel.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 07:10 AM
 
649 posts, read 982,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Well most Viets don't look EXACTLY like Han, I didn't say that, but they look similar enough. Plus, Han is so diverse...Han from Hainan are probably closer to Viets than Han from Beijing. The height differences in China are obvious: the Cantonese are the shortest, those from Fujian/Zhejiang/Shanghai are medium, and those from Shandong/Beijing/Hebei/Shaanxi tallest. I'm 5'9" and felt short in Beijing. In Hong Kong I feel tall.
The Dutch are taller than the British. In fact it's the tallest nationality in the world (average height).
That doesn't mean Dutch and British are not both White Caucasoids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
My Vietnamese friend said most Vietnamese cannot tell the Hoa from sight alone, only when they start speaking.
Hoa are Chinese people who moved/fled to Vietnam.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Also I noticed those Vietnamese in Hanoi look more Chinese. I think they're more 'pure' Viet, because those in HCM are more mixed with Cham and Khmer. .
They are Hoa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=h...K8KPkwXFl4HIBQ

Many of these girls could easily fit in Taipei or Singapore...
Why can't she be Hoa?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Calling them 'dark monkeys' does sound kinda racist...

I'd call a light East Asian like this Lin Chi-ling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia a pale ghost also.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,248,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sadgirl80 View Post
Because those Han Chinese only resisted the Chinese identity AFTER Kuomintang (KMT), became the governing polity on Taiwan in 1945 and not 500 years ago when they moved there from China.

Australians call themselves Australians at home. That's fine and good. Like how Singaporeans who live in Singapore call themselves Singaporeans.

It would be silly if an Australian who migrated to America uses the term Australian-American to identify himself.

Taiwanese-American or HongKong-American as a term is silly, because the idea of the hyphenate is to express your bloodline. This is the view held by myself and some other Chinese Americans, including those with parents who migrated from Taiwan or Hong Kong. This is a free world, at least in some parts, so we're entitled to say as we feel.
I don't call myself Singaporean-Australian or Chinese-Australian, just Australian, because my nationality is the most relevant thing in my daily life. I speak English, grew up in Australia, so if people ask me where I'm from that's what I tell them. If pushed I say I was born in Singapore or my parents are from Singapore and Malaysia. If asked if I'm Chinese I say 'sort of, my ancestors were from China.' I am kind of Chinese, but only really in ancestry. I don't feel I can claim to be really fully Chinese because i don't speak the language and only have a passing familiarity with Chinese history and culture (which is pretty interesting). I used to be a bit embarrassed about being Asian/Chinese I admit, but I've begun to embrace my heritage more. Roots/ancestry are important, but for better or worse I'm a Westerner with a Western cultural mindset. I suppose my parents were also English speaking/English educated and rather Westernised in most respects. I might learn Mandarin one day, but right now don't have a pressing need to. I also feel the rise of Mandarin in Singapore is Mandarin imperialism at the expense of Hokkien, Teochew, Hakka.etc.

I don't think Taiwanese-American sounds silly...I think they are classified as Chinese by the US census, I wonder if the same applies to Singaporeans though. Likewise, Singaporean-American is a valid title, especially if one's family has lived there a long time.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,248,336 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadgirl80 View Post
The Dutch are taller than the British. In fact it's the tallest nationality in the world (average height).
That doesn't mean Dutch and British are not both White Caucasoids.

Hoa are Chinese people who moved/fled to Vietnam.


They are Hoa.
Why can't she be Hoa?



I'd call a light East Asian like this Lin Chi-ling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia a pale ghost also.
If you want to talk in 'races' then Vietnamese are the same race as Chinese, Japanese, Koreans. Are you trying to say Viets are different from these? Traditionally the Mongoloid race included everyone from Siberia to Java.

They're definitely not all Hoa...in fact Hanoi has hardly any Hoa compared to Saigon, and I'm talking about all the people I saw on the street. Some of these girls might be Hoa but the overwhelming majority are Kinh.
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