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Old 08-23-2013, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,248,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sadgirl80 View Post
The boundaries are not definite because of admixtures over time. But I can tell most non Hoa Vietnamese from Han Chinese in the US.

I'm unable to tell Chinese Americans of any kind from Korean Americans.
Then you simply lack observation skills.

Take Daniel Dae Kim for instance:

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=d...DcKSkwWc3YDYBA

Never seen a Southern Chinese who looks like him. Possibly some N.Chinese or Mongolians, but I can actually quite easily tell he's Korean. There's a typical 'Korean look.' Not all Koreans have it, but many do. Some Koreans are harder to tell though, but I would seldom get them mixed up with a S.Chinese.

So you're saying a Cantonese looks more like a Korean than a Vietnamese, who are much closer? Korea was also it's own kingdom 2,000 years ago, why would Koreans be much closer to ALL Han than Viets? Doesn't make any sense. Koreans are somewhat close to N.Chinese, and further from S.Chinese. Vietnamese are somewhat close to S.Chinese but not really like N.Chinese.

 
Old 08-23-2013, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,248,336 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadgirl80 View Post
The DNA of Japanese, Chinese and Koreans show that they are practically the same race, in the same way the admixture of a German, Pole, Brit, French and Austrian will look like.

Making sense of DNA data and the origins of the Japanese | Heritage of Japan
That very map shows Taiwanese Han closer to Vietnamese than Japanese. What does that say? I think the Japanese have several origins, from Korea, Siberia, China and South-East Asia. Korean are mostly from Manchuria, Siberia, maybe Mongolia. Language-wise Japanese and Korean might be Altaic, more like Mongolian, Evenki, Buryat, Yakut than Chinese languages.

If you're talking the ORIGINAL Han, who come from the Huang He of the North China plain, they would cluster more with Quang, Tibetans, somewhat with Mongolians, with Koreans a bit more distant. But the Chinese conquered a vast area, bigger than Europe, with a great diversity of peoples. So are you saying they didn't mix at all with those natives? Are you really saying you cannot tell any difference whatsoever between the people in Harbin and those in Guangzhou? On a trip of the Yangtze I met two old ladies from Heiliongjiang , formerely Manchuria. Dunno how Manchurian they were, but they immediately stood out because of their very small eyes, even small among the other Chinese. There was a man from Xiamen who looked totally different from them.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 08:05 AM
 
649 posts, read 982,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Do you accept that most of those pictures are not of Hoa? I've been to Hanoi, you haven't, so I know what I'm talking about.
No I do not because I looked at the pictures over and over and a small handful can pass off as Chinese-Singaporean (the two light skinned girls wearing the long sleeved red costumes) but the majority of them look like Southeast Asians. They look Thai. They do not look like Han Chinese aka Southern Chinese.

Southeast Asian and Southern Chinese DNA ARE NOT similar, and that was the fallacious statement that somebody wrote earlier without any thought or knowledge. Majority of people in the whole list of Southeast Asian countries (Philippines, Cambodia, Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei, Laos, Burma) do not look like Han Chinese.

Chinese Americans of ancestry from Fujian, Singapore, Taiwan, Guangdong province, look like Korean Americans but they do not look like Southeast Asians.

The white Americans love to converge in forums and discuss Asian women. And even them, people who are not familiar with a culture far removed from them, know about East Asian people and what they look like and Southeast Asian people and what they look like.

This is another US born Chinese American who is Han Chinese from Southern China ancestry.

Olympic Skating Champs: Where Are They Now? - MICHELLE & CLAY - Michelle Kwan : People.com
 
Old 08-23-2013, 08:08 AM
 
649 posts, read 982,143 times
Reputation: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Then you simply lack observation skills.

Take Daniel Dae Kim for instance:

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=d...DcKSkwWc3YDYBA

Never seen a Southern Chinese who looks like him. Possibly some N.Chinese or Mongolians, but I can actually quite easily tell he's Korean. There's a typical 'Korean look.' Not all Koreans have it, but many do. Some Koreans are harder to tell though, but I would seldom get them mixed up with a S.Chinese.

So you're saying a Cantonese looks more like a Korean than a Vietnamese, who are much closer? Korea was also it's own kingdom 2,000 years ago, why would Koreans be much closer to ALL Han than Viets? Doesn't make any sense. Koreans are somewhat close to N.Chinese, and further from S.Chinese. Vietnamese are somewhat close to S.Chinese but not really like N.Chinese.

The guy you showed looks so tanned and doesn't look Korean to me. In fact he looks like what I imagine to be foreigners and other unlearned people's imagery of a Southeast Asian because of his tan.

This is what many Korean Americans look like, as in, a typical look.

John Cho - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Uhhh perhaps the Koreans you see don't look like the Koreans I see. Its just too bad.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,248,336 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadgirl80 View Post
Taiwanese are mostly from Fujian province, this is well known. Many guys in Taipei look like Jeremy Lin. In fact many guys in Seoul (have lived there for a year teaching English) and Hong Kong look like that too. Face wise at least. Jeremy is much taller than the average ASIAN man from anywhere!

What do you mean by "all over China"? If you think about it, whether it be China or the US, people move. That's how new cities are formed and how the world develops. So the people from Fujian also moved from another part of China right?!

You ask me, is Jeremy predominantly Southern ancestry..don't you think your question is funny? This means all the Han Chinese who now reside in ALL THE SOUTHERN CHINESE CITIES like Guangdong province, Fujian province, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore blah blah, and we all know their ancestors came from there, you can call into question and ask is "each one of them of southern ancestry"?! This is ridiculous.
In Taiwan people are divided into 3 main categories: the aborigines, who arrived up to 8,000 years ago, the original Han settlers, who arrived around the beginning of the Qing dynasty, and those that fled China after the KMT retreated to Taipei. The last category includes people from all over the PRC, so there would be some Northerners among them. I'm talking about recently southern ancestry.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 08:11 AM
 
649 posts, read 982,143 times
Reputation: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
That very map shows Taiwanese Han closer to Vietnamese than Japanese. What does that say? I think the Japanese have several origins, from Korea, Siberia, China and South-East Asia. Korean are mostly from Manchuria, Siberia, maybe Mongolia. Language-wise Japanese and Korean might be Altaic, more like Mongolian, Evenki, Buryat, Yakut than Chinese languages.

If you're talking the ORIGINAL Han, who come from the Huang He of the North China plain, they would cluster more with Quang, Tibetans, somewhat with Mongolians, with Koreans a bit more distant. But the Chinese conquered a vast area, bigger than Europe, with a great diversity of peoples. So are you saying they didn't mix at all with those natives? Are you really saying you cannot tell any difference whatsoever between the people in Harbin and those in Guangzhou? On a trip of the Yangtze I met two old ladies from Heiliongjiang , formerely Manchuria. Dunno how Manchurian they were, but they immediately stood out because of their very small eyes, even small among the other Chinese. There was a man from Xiamen who looked totally different from them.

Your link can't be opened.

Thanks for blathering but I am aware of what I know, is that the admixture of Korean, Japanese and Chinese DNA show that they are the same race and mixed with one another, with the Chinese preserving the highest percentage of their own DNA and the Japanese the least. The Japanese have equal part Chinese and Korean DNA and the Koreans have 22% Chinese DNA. Making sense of DNA data and the origins of the Japanese | Heritage of Japan
 
Old 08-23-2013, 08:13 AM
 
649 posts, read 982,143 times
Reputation: 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
In Taiwan people are divided into 3 main categories: the aborigines, who arrived up to 8,000 years ago, the original Han settlers, who arrived around the beginning of the Qing dynasty, and those that fled China after the KMT retreated to Taipei. The last category includes people from all over the PRC, so there would be some Northerners among them. I'm talking about recently southern ancestry.
Newsflash. "All over the PRC" = Han.

Most of the Han Chinese in the cities I have named do not look anything like Southeast Asians. I'm not saying there is NO difference between the appearance of a Han Chinese in the North and a Han Chinese whose great great grandparents migrated to Guangdong and then to Hong Kong. The ones in the really cold regions should be taller than a Han Chinese in Singapore. Just like how the Dutch are taller than other white people in Europe. They are the same race and it does not make the Dutch closer in race to say, some tall African tribe somewhere. What a funny analogy but I think is accurate for the garbage thats been said here previously. The Han Chinese I see in those cities, especially the women, are lighter than even some Han Chinese in the north. I do not see a difference in skin color between most of the Han Chinese women in the southern cities and the skin tone of Ziyi Zhang. This is a Han Chinese in Singapore. http://www.angelfire.com/nd2/aijohnny/fannwong.html

And to say that Southern Chinese DNA is the same as Southeast Asian is just plain disingenuous. I'm still waiting for you to dispute that. Was it you who made that statement? Let me go back and check who I quoted.

Last edited by sadgirl80; 08-23-2013 at 08:23 AM..
 
Old 08-23-2013, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,248,336 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadgirl80 View Post
No I do not because I looked at the pictures over and over and a small handful can pass off as Chinese-Singaporean (the two light skinned girls wearing the long sleeved red costumes) but the majority of them look like Southeast Asians. They look Thai. They do not look like Han Chinese aka Southern Chinese.

Southeast Asian and Southern Chinese DNA ARE NOT similar, and that was the fallacious statement that somebody wrote earlier without any thought or knowledge. Majority of people in the whole list of Southeast Asian countries (Philippines, Cambodia, Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei, Laos, Burma) do not look like Han Chinese.

Chinese Americans of ancestry from Fujian, Singapore, Taiwan, Guangdong province, look like Korean Americans but they do not look like Southeast Asians.

The white Americans love to converge in forums and discuss Asian women. And even them, people who are not familiar with a culture far removed from them, know about East Asian people and what they look like and Southeast Asian people and what they look like.

This is another US born Chinese American who is Han Chinese from Southern China ancestry.

Olympic Skating Champs: Where Are They Now? - MICHELLE & CLAY - Michelle Kwan : People.com
If you look up an haplogroup map you'll see relatedness is a matter of degrees. You'll see a clustering of traits for all East Asian (that includes SEA) populations. There was also a chart showing the degree of 'relatedness' between Asian groups. Beijing to Tokyo is apparently the same as Beijing to Hanoi. If Vietnamese are distant from N.Chinese than Japanese are equally so. Of course, on a world scale ALL THREE CLUSTER TOGETHER. Koreans too.

Vietnam is probably an outlier in SEA, but I think the 'Indian' features in Cambodia are exaggerated. Many definitely are mostly of the 'Mongoloid' type, just darker, sometimes more pronounced brow-ridges/deeper-set relatively large eyes, shorter stature.etc.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,248,336 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadgirl80 View Post
Your link can't be opened.

Thanks for blathering but I am aware of what I know, is that the admixture of Korean, Japanese and Chinese DNA show that they are the same race and mixed with one another, with the Chinese preserving the highest percentage of their own DNA and the Japanese the least. The Japanese have equal part Chinese and Korean DNA and the Koreans have 22% Chinese DNA. Making sense of DNA data and the origins of the Japanese | Heritage of Japan
You sound like you have an agenda. We don't everything about our genetic story, but your assertions just sound biased. Indeed what does 22% 'Chinese' DNA even mean? Similarity is measured by specific markers between population. And WHICH 'Chinese' are we talking about? Chinese from Beijing, Chengdu, Hong Kong? They're all different, even if they share a lot in common. Korean civilisation(s) was established before there was even such thing as a 'Chinese' national/ethnic identity.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,248,336 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadgirl80 View Post
Newsflash. "All over the PRC" = Han.

Most of the Han Chinese in the cities I have named do not look anything like Southeast Asians. I'm not saying there is NO difference between the appearance of a Han Chinese in the North and a Han Chinese who migrated to Hong Kong. The Han Chinese I see in those cities, especially the women, are lighter than even some Han Chinese in the north. I do not see a difference in skin color between most of the Han Chinese women in the southern cities and the skin tone of Ziyi Zhang.

And to say that Southern Chinese DNA is the same as Southeast Asian is just plain disingenuous. I'm still waiting for you to dispute that. Was it you who made that statement? Let me go back and check who I quoted.
We were talking about S.Chinese and Vietnamese, not all SE Asians. Vietnamese are themselves different from Thai, Malay, Khmer.etc. That the Viets look more North-east Asian is obvious even to non-Asians. I can see some SEA in many of them, but many could easily pass in S.China. I never claimed that a typical pure Malay could pass in S.China, although I've even seen many pale Malays who could pass for Chinese and dark Chinese who are mistaken for Malay.

As for skin colour, I think the lightness of N.Chinese is actually exaggerated. I think it's more a city vs rural and class thing. There are dark peasants in the north and very pale urban dwellers in the south. In Vietnam there are some women who look lily-white who are ethnic Kinh.
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