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Old 04-21-2013, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Charlotte North Carolina
1,527 posts, read 2,324,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Great_Jack View Post
She doesn't look like typical S.Chinese that you will see walking around streets in S.China, she looks like a N.Chinese (and Vietnamese look nothing like N.Chinese).
Even among Singaporean (which made up by Southern Chinese), majority of us still don't look like that woman.

Btw, based on what you said. You are telling that Japanese are less Asian than Chinese right?
I would say this is more like a personal idea of look, which is depend on personal point of view.
okinawan yes.....remember okinawan isnt the same thing as mainland japanese

 
Old 05-02-2013, 12:30 PM
 
37 posts, read 133,169 times
Reputation: 15
ezio autidore is a thai troll. The fact is that Thai is not even an ethnic term it was a term invented by the government to make sure everyone was lumped together as the "thai race". Tai is an ethnic term.

Vietnamese Zhuang and Tai were originally related and came from southern china. All the smaller mon khmer groups are related to the Khmer today. We still show very similar languages same cultural practices etc. If you take out the Indian influence from Khmer today we would still be same as our smaller mon khmer tribes. I belong to one of the smaller tribes. The mon khmer tribes first came out of southwestern china as well evident of mon khmer words still being in chinese today. Thai language today also contains lot of the trilled R sound and many Khmer words.

Sadly Thailand now is a strange mix of many peoples, including the Tai, modern chinese influences, and our mon khmer blood.

No I do not think Vietnamese were a mon khmer people at first. I do not know how or when they began speaking a mon khmer language. Look at it this way the Thai of today are result of the mixing of mon khmers and Tai from China. They still look different from Vietnamese. Id say the average Thai was 70% tai and 30% mon khmer. Even if you say the Vietnamese started as mon khmers they show nothing in their phenotype to say that . Khmer Lao and even Thais can tell Vietnamese easily from facial features.

The Khmu and Wa are very early versions of Mon Khmer peoples the ancestors of mon khmer and others.
http://photocdn.sohu.com/20080415/Img256314893.jpg Wa people
http://img11.itiexue.net/706/7063607.jpg
http://history.kunming.cn/index/imag...0b4ba52e09.jpg
Khmu in Laos and China
克木人<克木人祝酒*>岩坎宰—在线* 放—优酷网,视频高清在线观看
from my tribe bunong in cambodia
177 - Phnong Village | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
171 - Phnong Village | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

girl in saigon
Saigon Girl wearing an Ao Dai ( Vietnamese national costume) | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Brao girl another mon khmer group
Brao girl | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
 
Old 05-03-2013, 08:31 PM
 
138 posts, read 643,216 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by sen monorom View Post
ezio autidore is a thai troll. The fact is that Thai is not even an ethnic term it was a term invented by the government to make sure everyone was lumped together as the "thai race". Tai is an ethnic term.

Vietnamese Zhuang and Tai were originally related and came from southern china. All the smaller mon khmer groups are related to the Khmer today. We still show very similar languages same cultural practices etc. If you take out the Indian influence from Khmer today we would still be same as our smaller mon khmer tribes. I belong to one of the smaller tribes. The mon khmer tribes first came out of southwestern china as well evident of mon khmer words still being in chinese today. Thai language today also contains lot of the trilled R sound and many Khmer words.

Sadly Thailand now is a strange mix of many peoples, including the Tai, modern chinese influences, and our mon khmer blood.

No I do not think Vietnamese were a mon khmer people at first. I do not know how or when they began speaking a mon khmer language. Look at it this way the Thai of today are result of the mixing of mon khmers and Tai from China. They still look different from Vietnamese. Id say the average Thai was 70% tai and 30% mon khmer. Even if you say the Vietnamese started as mon khmers they show nothing in their phenotype to say that . Khmer Lao and even Thais can tell Vietnamese easily from facial features.

The Khmu and Wa are very early versions of Mon Khmer peoples the ancestors of mon khmer and others.
http://photocdn.sohu.com/20080415/Img256314893.jpg Wa people
http://img11.itiexue.net/706/7063607.jpg
http://history.kunming.cn/index/imag...0b4ba52e09.jpg
Khmu in Laos and China
…‹œ人<…‹œ人祝…’*Œ>岩Ž宰€”œ线’* ”€”˜…‘Œ†‘˜…œ线‚œ‹
from my tribe bunong in cambodia
177 - Phnong Village | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
171 - Phnong Village | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

girl in saigon
Saigon Girl wearing an Ao Dai ( Vietnamese national costume) | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Brao girl another mon khmer group
Brao girl | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Quote:
ezio autidore is a thai troll. The fact is that Thai is not even an ethnic term it was a term invented by the government to make sure everyone was lumped together as the "thai race". Tai is an ethnic term.
How am I a troll explan? If you don't have a good reason to call me a troll then you are definitely the one.

Also another thing you need to know is Vietnamese isn't an ethnic. It is the term to use for nationality in fact to make everyone lumped together just like how you said that Thai isn't an ethnic but nationality. You are the one telling me this, I though you alredy know of what you are talking about.

Quote:
Vietnamese Zhuang and Tai were originally related and came from southern china. All the smaller mon khmer groups are related to the Khmer today.
Can you show me any source that telling that Kinh ethnic (majority of Vietnam population) are originated in China? Because I never see any.

Quote:
No I do not think Vietnamese were a mon khmer people at first. I do not know how or when they began speaking a mon khmer language. Look at it this way the Thai of today are result of the mixing of mon khmers and Tai from China. They still look different from Vietnamese. Id say the average Thai was 70% tai and 30% mon khmer. Even if you say the Vietnamese started as mon khmers they show nothing in their phenotype to say that . Khmer Lao and even Thais can tell Vietnamese easily from facial features.
I am wondering how are these people look like lol?? Chinese or something?



If you are going to use Vietnamese in Hanoi then don't forget that they are alredy mixed with Chinese. The funny thing is even Vietnamese in the Northern Vietnam are alredy mixed with Chinese themselves, but they are still appear to be darker+look more Mon-Khmer than real 100% Tai/Dai in Northern Thailand.

Here is comparison Northern Vietnam vs Northern Thailand (no cherry picked).

Vietnamese (Hanoi)


Thai (Chiang-Mai)
 
Old 05-03-2013, 08:33 PM
 
138 posts, read 643,216 times
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Source I found...
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_people

Quote:
The First Vietnamese

Historians believe that the earliest Vietnamese people gradually moved from the Indonesian archipelago through the Malay Peninsula and Thailand until they settled on the edges of the Red River in the Tonkin Delta.[citation needed] Archaeologists follow a path of stone tools from the Late Pleistocene Age (600,000-12,000 BC), across Java, Malaysia, Thailand and north to Burma. These stone tools are thought to be the first human tools used in Southeast Asia. Archaeologists believe that at this time the Himalayas, a chain of mountains in northern Burma and China, created an icy barrier which isolated the people of Southeast Asia. During the Ice Age, (12,000-8000 BC) the extreme northern and southern parts of the earth froze into giant glaciers and icebergs, while at the equator temperatures did not fall below freezing. Due to the formation of icebergs in the far north, the ocean levels around the equator dropped significantly. This resulted in the exposure of the shallow areas surrounding the coasts and islands of Southeast Asia - today known as the Sunda Shelf.
It is generally thought[citation needed] that the exposed Sunda Shelf looked like a giant salt plain, and that perhaps people ventured out across this area to settle on other coasts or islands. Later, when the glaciers melted, the Sunda Shelf again disappeared under water. Because it is a relatively shallow body of water, it has always provided a safe area for traders and travelers in small boats to pass safely without the threat of high or choppy seas. In this way, the geography of the area has had a lot to do with the way in which cultures developed. As the map indicates, outside the Sunda Shelf are some deep ocean basins which were not often crossed until heavier and wider Chinese vessels (massive vessels from the Song Dynasty (960-1279) that dwarfed later European man-of-war sailing ships) could traverse these deep and sometimes dangerous seas.
As the glaciers melted and the seas near these coasts rose, traders and other travelers who wanted to migrate to other areas, or perhaps to proselytize religion, used boats as transport. For the next 4,000 years, until 8000 BC, people also moved across the mainland of Southeast Asia towards the Tonkin Delta, some stopping and settling along the way. Eventually, the descendants of these migratory peoples entered the Neolithic Age (from around 8000-800 BC), when humans started to use simple stone tools. Remains of these people and their culture have been found in the Hoa Binh Caves along the Red River and in the Tonkin Delta. In the Middle Neolithic Period (2500-2000 BC), more people appeared in the area of present-day Vietnam and settled at another location called Bac Son, in a central area of the Tonkin Delta. These people were probably somewhat taller and lighter-skinned than the negritos from Hoa Binh; they excelled in the art of basketry as well as in the manufacturing and use of polished double-edged stone tools.
So vietnamese are originally even from Indonesia and then they move up into the mainland of Southeast Asia.
 
Old 05-03-2013, 08:52 PM
 
138 posts, read 643,216 times
Reputation: 42
Another source
2. History of Vietnam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Vietnamese have been living in Southeast Asia for over 20,000 years ago.
If count since the history ever recorded then it would 4800 years ago (2879 BC).

Map of Asia at 500BCE.



Obviously Vietnameses were alredy in Southeast Asia and live along side with Mon-Khmer, while at the same time the Tai/Dai/Thai race were still living in Southwest-Midwest of China.

Now when compare timeline of Vietnamese(Kinh) and timeline of Thai(Tai/Dai). Vietnamese basically have been living in Southeast Asia for at least 20000 years, but I will count since their history ever recorded, which is based on Hong Bang Dynasty started which is 4800 years ago.

Timeline of Thai(Tai/Dai), basically moved down from Southwest/Midwest of China in 12-13 century on the exact same time as Mongol invasion in China. So basically have been living 700-800 years ago.

Now think by yourself that the group that moved from China 700-800 years ago vs a group that have been living in Southeast Asia for 4800 years (It will definitely a lot longer then that if count from the exact start which is 20000 years ago), now think by yourself which group is going to be more connected to Northeast Asia, 700-800 years vs 4800 years (or 20000 years).
 
Old 05-03-2013, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Charlotte North Carolina
1,527 posts, read 2,324,425 times
Reputation: 129
maybe northern thai might be lighter skin then those viets

but you dont look typical northern mongoloid....
http://www.northernthai.ca/images/welcometont.jpg
http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/ma...th-flower-.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...i_2005_033.jpg

now look at the vietnamese..
they look very classical mongoloid compared to the non-chinese looking thai
http://www.vietnamesewomen.biz/image...dating_008.jpg
http://texasgunblog.com/wp-content/u...01/Vietnam.jpg
 
Old 05-04-2013, 12:44 AM
 
37 posts, read 133,169 times
Reputation: 15
Lol you just proved yourself wrong with the illustration bro. This is what i was referring to. Van Lang was the original home of the Vietnamese or Lac Viet. Even if they were a Mon Khmer people they were later invaded by the Au Viet who were related to the Zhuang and Tai peoples.

Vietnamese Au-lac) — according to one authority, a merging of Mon-Khmer and Thai peoples before the Chinese conquest46

The u Việt were also referred to the Kingdom of East Ou (東甌), descendants of the Yue (state) moved to Fujian after its fall, and the West Ou (西; Chinese: Xī Ōu; Ty meaning "western"). The West Ou were considered to be one of the Bǎiyu tribes. They had short hair and tattoos, and blackened their teeth.[1] They are considered to have been the ancestors of the upland Tai-speaking minority groups in Vietnam such as the Nung and Tay,[4][5] as well as the closely related Zhuang people of Guangxi.

Conclusion, Vietnamese today are still more northeast asian if you want to use such a weird term because even if they were a mon khmer tribe they were mixied wth au viet a tai upland group then later to be mixed with Chinese during the 1000 yr conquest. Thai are tai and mon khmer people with chinese thrown in recently. I estimate a normal Thai citizen to be 60% tai or northeast and 40% mon khmer. Or 70% tai and 30% mon khmer. Normal Vietnamese would literally show up 0% mon khmer blood because even if that original mon khmer tribe was mon khmer it was squashed with an upland Tai and later Chinese blood.
 
Old 05-04-2013, 01:15 AM
 
37 posts, read 133,169 times
Reputation: 15
This is a Muong girl does she look different than a Vietnamese?
http://alantour.com/wp-content/uploa...dy-300x225.jpg

does this nung tay girl look different ?
http://www.daidoanket.vn/Pictures/DA..._23_yenbai.jpg
According to a research study done by the Hpital Saint-Louis in Paris, France: "the comparison of the Vietnamese with other East Asian populations showed a close genetic relationship of the population under investigation with other Orientals", with the exception of seven unique markers. These results, along with remnants of Thai enzyme morphs, indicate a theory of a dual ethnic origin of the Vietnamese population from Chinese and Thai populations.[25] A 2001 HLA study headed by laboratories at the Mackay Memorial Hospital in Taipei (Taiwan) classifies the Vietnamese people in the same genetic cluster as the Miao (Hmong), Southern Han (Southern Chinese), Buyei and Thai, with a divergent family consisting of Thai Chinese and Singapore Chinese, Minnan (Hoklo) and Hakka.[26]

so yes Vietnamese are more "northeast" whatever that means if it means more southern chinese than the THAI of current Thailand. Thai of current Thailand have mon khmer mix very evident in most and still evident in some.
 
Old 05-04-2013, 03:38 AM
 
138 posts, read 643,216 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by sen monorom View Post
Lol you just proved yourself wrong with the illustration bro. This is what i was referring to. Van Lang was the original home of the Vietnamese or Lac Viet. Even if they were a Mon Khmer people they were later invaded by the Au Viet who were related to the Zhuang and Tai peoples.

Vietnamese Au-lac) according to one authority, a merging of Mon-Khmer and Thai peoples before the Chinese conquest46

The u Việt were also referred to the Kingdom of East Ou (東甌), descendants of the Yue (state) moved to Fujian after its fall, and the West Ou (西; Chinese: Xī Ōu; Ty meaning "western"). The West Ou were considered to be one of the Bǎiyu tribes. They had short hair and tattoos, and blackened their teeth.[1] They are considered to have been the ancestors of the upland Tai-speaking minority groups in Vietnam such as the Nung and Tay,[4][5] as well as the closely related Zhuang people of Guangxi.

Conclusion, Vietnamese today are still more northeast asian if you want to use such a weird term because even if they were a mon khmer tribe they were mixied wth au viet a tai upland group then later to be mixed with Chinese during the 1000 yr conquest. Thai are tai and mon khmer people with chinese thrown in recently. I estimate a normal Thai citizen to be 60% tai or northeast and 40% mon khmer. Or 70% tai and 30% mon khmer. Normal Vietnamese would literally show up 0% mon khmer blood because even if that original mon khmer tribe was mon khmer it was squashed with an upland Tai and later Chinese blood.
What part of Vietnam are you talking about? If you are talking about overall. You seem to complately forgot about Southern Vietnamese and Center Vietnamese which Mon-Khmer/Cham are mostly majority.

Vietnam in north mayby mixed of Khmer/Tai/Chinese.
Center = Cham + Hybird (Khmer/Tai/Chinese).
South = Khmer + Cham.

So in overall Vietnamese is maybe like 50-50 Khmer or S.Chinese.

Quote:
0% mon khmer blood because even if that original mon khmer tribe was mon khmer it was squashed with an upland Tai and later Chinese blood.
You are telling that Mon-Khmer itself has 0% of Mon-Khmer in them LOL?
That is like telling red color has 0% of red lol....
Now think about it that who would believe you that red has 0% of red? or mon-khmer has 0% of Mon-Khmer?? This is sound so stupid....

I also don't get what you are talking about ? You are claiming that the Tai and the Chinese mixing in North of Vietnam is complately delete the original Mon-Khmer blood of the original Vietnamese lol?? That is funny !

You are telling that the pure Tai like Thai in the Northern Thailand are less Tai then the hybird Tai-Khmer in Northern Vietnam?

So you are basically telling that 100 % green color is less green then a 50% green color that alredy mixed with 50% red lol? One question about this, how your brain functional on this anyway?
 
Old 05-04-2013, 03:48 AM
 
138 posts, read 643,216 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejay1 View Post
maybe northern thai might be lighter skin then those viets

but you dont look typical northern mongoloid....
http://www.northernthai.ca/images/welcometont.jpg
http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/ma...th-flower-.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...i_2005_033.jpg

now look at the vietnamese..
they look very classical mongoloid compared to the non-chinese looking thai
http://www.vietnamesewomen.biz/image...dating_008.jpg
http://texasgunblog.com/wp-content/u...01/Vietnam.jpg
lol

Quote:
now look at the vietnamese..
they look very classical mongoloid compared to the non-chinese looking thai
http://www.vietnamesewomen.biz/image...dating_008.jpg
http://texasgunblog.com/wp-content/u...01/Vietnam.jpg
The fact is none in the video look like those two you posted (I am talking about in the Northern area like Hanoi). 1000 of people, none look like those two woman that you posted in both skin color and phenotype.

Hanoi street




Quote:


Btw these Thai do look generally like Thai that walking around street in Northern Thailand. I am also talking about the enviroment around like other people walking in the background, all of them have similar features with same light skin tone.


Last edited by Ezio_Auditore; 05-04-2013 at 04:09 AM..
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