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Old 03-22-2013, 08:57 PM
 
1,434 posts, read 2,115,696 times
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The Dutch didn't make much of an impact in Kerala. They were defeated by the Raja Varma but they did engage in conversion practices in other parts of India.


The arrival of Protestant missions

William Carey translated the Bible into Bengali, Sanskrit, Marathi and numerous other languages and dialects
The first Protestant missionaries to set foot in India were two Lutherans from Germany, Bartholomäus Ziegenbalg and Heinrich Plütschau, who began work in 1705 in the Danish settlement of Tranquebar. They translated the Bible into the local Tamil language, and afterwards into Hindustani. They made little progress at first, but gradually the mission spread to Madras, Cuddalore and Tanjore. Today the Bishop of Tranquebar is the official title of the bishop of the Tamil Evangelical Lutheran Church in Tamil Nadu which was founded in 1919 as a result of the German Lutheran Leipzig Mission and Church of Sweden Mission, the successors of Bartholomäus Ziegenbalg and Heinrich Plütschau. The seat of the bishop, the cathedral and its Church House the Tranquebar House are in Tiruchirappalli.
Beginning in the 18th century, Protestant missionaries began working throughout India, leading to the establishment of different Christian communities across the Indian Subcontinent. In 1793, William Carey, an English Baptist Minister came to India as a Missionary. He worked in Serampore, Calcutta, and other places as a missionary. He started the Serampore College. He translated the Bible into Bengali, Sanskrit, and numerous other languages and dialects. He worked in India until his death in 1834.


The Medak Cathedral of Church of South India is the largest Cathedral Church in India
.
The London Missionary Society was the first Protestant mission in Andhra Pradesh which established its station at Visakhapatnam in 1805. Anthony Norris Groves, a Plymouth Brethren missionary came to India in 1833. He worked in the Godavari delta area until his death in 1852. John Christian Frederick Heyer was the first Lutheran missionary in the region of Andhra Pradesh. He founded the Guntur Mission in 1842. He studied Sanskrit and medicine in Baltimore, and set sail for India from Boston in 1841 with three other missionary couples on the ship Brenda. He travelled to India a second time in 1847, spending a decade, mainly in the Guntur district of Andhra Pradesh state, in southern India, where he ministered and performed yeoman service to the people there. Supported initially by the Pennsylvania Ministerium, and later by the Foreign Mission Board of the General Synod, Heyer was also encouraged and assisted by British government officials. He established a number of hospitals and a network of schools throughout the Guntur region.
During the 19th century, several American Baptist missionaries evangelised in the northeastern parts of India. In 1876, Dr. E. W. Clark first went to live in a Naga village, four years after his Assamese helper, Godhula, baptised the first Naga converts. Rev. and Mrs. A.F. Merrill arrived in India in 1928 and worked in the southeast section of the Garo Hills. Rev. and Mrs. M.J. Chance spent most of the years between 1950–1956 at Golaghat working with the Naga and Garo tribes. Even today the heaviest concentrations of Christians in India continue to be in the Northeast among the Nagas, Khasis, Kukis and Mizos.
Mormon missionaries, including Hugh Findlay, arrived in Bombay and Pune in the early 1850s, but did not meet with much success. Jehovah's Witnesses began their activity in India in the year 1903, following the visit of their founder Charles Taze Russel to India.



As for the Pope, he is born and raised in Argentina. His family is of Italian descent and he speaks spanish.

Pope Francis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




As for Buddhists in Myanmar, what's your point? I still think India would be better as a Buddhist nation. I can also point out Sri Lanka. What's funny is how you overlook the reasons why they are fighting. Address that first and foremost.

I really can't blame the Hindus for taking to violence in such states against Christians and Muslims in those parts. Democracy in India is really a "numbers" game. The Hindus are scared of their ppl being religiously converted which would dilute their power in India. NGO's and Missionaries convert ppl by bribing them. I have seen it firsthand. As for Muslims, I suggest you visit Hyderbad and other Muslim majority areas, to see the ground realities. There are good and bad in every religion. Read up on Dr. Ambedkhar and why he converted to Buddhism versus any other faith. Do you know how my ancestos lived in peace all these centuries in India? We did not convert a single person. A person should be free to make their own free choice by their own free will. By doing so, we maintain mutual respect and peace. The West has a funy way of reporting the violence against Muslims in India yet conveniently ignore the violence on Hindus. I wonder why?


Now getting back to the topic, like I said before the British were interested in keeping the peace in order to consolidate their power and wealth. In order to do that, they stayed away from most religious issues. The Portuguese tried to converted ppl but were met with resistance and many openly converted back to their previous religions or even incorporated and diluted it with their other beliefs. But after 400 yrs of the Goan Inqusition, its bound to make some impact nonetheless. Regardless, even if the British engaged in conversion practices, there is no guarantee the numbers would have increased exponentially. India has a funny way of diluting religions from their former practices and incorporating it into Vedic culture.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christi...of_Catholicism
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:08 PM
 
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Maybe the Protestants took to heart what happened to St. Thomas in Chennai/Madras.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:28 PM
 
4,454 posts, read 5,739,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistertee View Post
The Dutch didn't make much of an impact in Kerala. They were defeated by the Raja Varma but they did engage in conversion practices in other parts of India.


The arrival of Protestant missions

William Carey translated the Bible into Bengali, Sanskrit, Marathi and numerous other languages and dialects
The first Protestant missionaries to set foot in India were two Lutherans from Germany, Bartholomäus Ziegenbalg and Heinrich Plütschau, who began work in 1705 in the Danish settlement of Tranquebar. They translated the Bible into the local Tamil language, and afterwards into Hindustani. They made little progress at first, but gradually the mission spread to Madras, Cuddalore and Tanjore. Today the Bishop of Tranquebar is the official title of the bishop of the Tamil Evangelical Lutheran Church in Tamil Nadu which was founded in 1919 as a result of the German Lutheran Leipzig Mission and Church of Sweden Mission, the successors of Bartholomäus Ziegenbalg and Heinrich Plütschau. The seat of the bishop, the cathedral and its Church House the Tranquebar House are in Tiruchirappalli.
Beginning in the 18th century, Protestant missionaries began working throughout India, leading to the establishment of different Christian communities across the Indian Subcontinent. In 1793, William Carey, an English Baptist Minister came to India as a Missionary. He worked in Serampore, Calcutta, and other places as a missionary. He started the Serampore College. He translated the Bible into Bengali, Sanskrit, and numerous other languages and dialects. He worked in India until his death in 1834.


The Medak Cathedral of Church of South India is the largest Cathedral Church in India
.
The London Missionary Society was the first Protestant mission in Andhra Pradesh which established its station at Visakhapatnam in 1805. Anthony Norris Groves, a Plymouth Brethren missionary came to India in 1833. He worked in the Godavari delta area until his death in 1852. John Christian Frederick Heyer was the first Lutheran missionary in the region of Andhra Pradesh. He founded the Guntur Mission in 1842. He studied Sanskrit and medicine in Baltimore, and set sail for India from Boston in 1841 with three other missionary couples on the ship Brenda. He travelled to India a second time in 1847, spending a decade, mainly in the Guntur district of Andhra Pradesh state, in southern India, where he ministered and performed yeoman service to the people there. Supported initially by the Pennsylvania Ministerium, and later by the Foreign Mission Board of the General Synod, Heyer was also encouraged and assisted by British government officials. He established a number of hospitals and a network of schools throughout the Guntur region.
During the 19th century, several American Baptist missionaries evangelised in the northeastern parts of India. In 1876, Dr. E. W. Clark first went to live in a Naga village, four years after his Assamese helper, Godhula, baptised the first Naga converts. Rev. and Mrs. A.F. Merrill arrived in India in 1928 and worked in the southeast section of the Garo Hills. Rev. and Mrs. M.J. Chance spent most of the years between 1950–1956 at Golaghat working with the Naga and Garo tribes. Even today the heaviest concentrations of Christians in India continue to be in the Northeast among the Nagas, Khasis, Kukis and Mizos.
Mormon missionaries, including Hugh Findlay, arrived in Bombay and Pune in the early 1850s, but did not meet with much success. Jehovah's Witnesses began their activity in India in the year 1903, following the visit of their founder Charles Taze Russel to India.



As for the Pope, he is born and raised in Argentina. His family is of Italian descent and he speaks spanish.

Pope Francis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




As for Buddhists in Myanmar, what's your point? I still think India would be better as a Buddhist nation. I can also point out Sri Lanka. What's funny is how you overlook the reasons why they are fighting. Address that first and foremost.

I really can't blame the Hindus for taking to violence in such states against Christians and Muslims in those parts. Democracy in India is really a "numbers" game. The Hindus are scared of their ppl being religiously converted which would dilute their power in India. NGO's and Missionaries convert ppl by bribing them. I have seen it firsthand. As for Muslims, I suggest you visit Hyderbad and other Muslim majority areas, to see the ground realities. There are good and bad in every religion. Read up on Dr. Ambedkhar and why he converted to Buddhism versus any other faith. Do you know how my ancestos lived in peace all these centuries in India? We did not convert a single person. A person should be free to make their own free choice by their own free will. By doing so, we maintain mutual respect and peace. The West has a funy way of reporting the violence against Muslims in India yet conveniently ignore the violence on Hindus. I wonder why?


Now getting back to the topic, like I said before the British were interested in keeping the peace in order to consolidate their power and wealth. In order to do that, they stayed away from most religious issues. The Portuguese tried to converted ppl but were met with resistance and many openly converted back to their previous religions or even incorporated and diluted it with their other beliefs. But after 400 yrs of the Goan Inqusition, its bound to make some impact nonetheless. Regardless, even if the British engaged in conversion practices, there is no guarantee the numbers would have increased exponentially. India has a funny way of diluting religions from their former practices and incorporating it into Vedic culture.


Christianity in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Wikipedia is not a authenic place to look up. Besides I have studied univesity on colonialism in East Asia. It did cover the Dutch activies yet their main aim was to make money and not convert people. Look up other sources besides wikipedia. Yes there were missionaries from Holland yet it was not the main reason to establish trading posts or terrorities in Asia.

Anyway in India today there is anticonversion laws in some states and it is illegal to convert someone to another religion. I live in a country where a majority of people are Christian and I dont really care less on the efforts of other religion missonary activity in my own country. Even so the numbers of Christians are in decline in my country and it does not disturb me even though I consider myself Christian. I have chatted to a Hindu from India and he found it insulting a Christian missionary preaching to Hindus over there and claimed that all christian missionary activity shoudl be banned. I did not respond to him that I believed that non christian missionary activity in my own country should be banned. Me I don't find it a issue as I live in a society where freedom of religion and free to believe what you want is the norm. Anyway there is no danger in INdia where Hindus would be reduced to a minority.

Yes there are peaceful Buddhists, yet with all religions including Christianity there are people that abuse the power and become currupt and even resort to killing in the name of their religion and that goes beyond of the founders of those religions are based on. I have read about the Goa inquisition by the Portugese colonial power. Plus I can name mountains of sexual abuses in different Christian organisations. Yet these people are hyprocrites and are not following the principles of their religion. I also know a Christian missionary that goes to India and does not pay people to convert to Christianity. I know his organisation gives aid to very poor villages yet never he has stated he gives money to people to convert to his religion. He has told me how he does it to strive to convert them yet it is not by money. I not saying all Christian missionaries are like that. I now he tries to convert people to Chrisitanity in my country too but he certainly does not pay them either.

YOu stated that you should see how Hindus feel about the persecution and killing by Muslims. Well Ghandi also had many complaints by Hindus there as well even though he was a Hindu himself and was killed by a hindu extremist because the Hindu extremists thought he was being soft regarding muslims. Ghandi wanted a society where hindus and all people of different religious faiths would live in harmony with each other. Yet extremists on all sides were opposed to it.

If you classify yourself as Buddhist then good for you. If India became Buddhist who knows what type of society it would be yet even so I believe India would still have a large muslim minority, a smaller Christian and Skih minority. It may have been a bit more peaceful yet who knows.

Protestantism did not become dominate in Inda the same reason Protestantism did not become dominiate in Indonesia. Indonesia was rulled by the Dutch and Christianity In Indonesia practised by a similar percentage as of in India.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:06 PM
 
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Im agnostic. I have given up on organized religion and follow what I like. I agree the Dutch weren't as motivated by religious zeal like the Portuguese and Wiki is not a great source. I just gave a link as quick as I could. I dont really care either. I was merely stating how I can see why Hindus have an issue with conversions. If it's done freely, it wouldn;t be an issue but when you one "baits" them into conversion, I think that stirs controversy. Gandhi is correct also, Hinduism itsel has its fair share of faults.

As for Gandhi, the problem with his msg was it was well ahead of its time. Hindus till the British took over, were on the verge of taking India back with the Marathas destroying the Muslim Kingdoms. As soon as the Marathas had taken over large tracts of Land, the British stepped in to divide and conquer. Hindus after Independence could not easily forget tha atrocities committed against their ppl. Generations had suffered horrific crimes in muslim controlled areas.


The only person I think who would have been in a prime position to push India towards the path that Gandhi envisioned was Netaji Bose, but sadly he disappeared. Most likely due to the British who he viewed him as a major threat to their designs.

I just wanted to point out, there is one place in India where all religions peacefully co exist for centuries and that is in Kerala, India.
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:03 AM
 
Location: Macao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
The real question is why did Buddhism never catch on in India, where it was essentially founded? Why didn't Islam never catch on when half the country was dominated by Muslim kings for centuries? The answers are complex, but christianity is the last religion I would expect to dominate India.
But Hinduism has been around since 500 BC, the roots of it even older. And the religion has been able to adapt all these other religions into an umbrella of sorts. India loves it's diverse Gods. Buddhism would have made sense to take over, as it was a reaction of sorts to the caste system. But, again, the culture of India could not give up it's belief in their Gods.
I think you answered it yourself - Hinduism is tied into the national identity. With the population and massive size of the sub-continent, western missionaries simply could not make a dent in the belief system.
That's been my observation as well.

I've also met a number of Indians who are 100% convinced they are Christian, AND Buddhist, AND Muslim, and on and on. They just take it all in.

Christianity is not an inclusive religion, nor is Islam. But Indians with Hindu are inclusive.

My guess is that missionaries could get them to agree to everything about Christianity, the Indians would really believe it as well, yet still go out and accept and embrace all other forms of spirituality/religion as well, without much second though. Probably just an enormous divided cultural difference that missionaries could not 'get through' to Indians about.
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:15 AM
 
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Hinduism is tied intrinsically with Indian identity. Indians have a cultural predication for being argumentative, subversive, and contradictory. For this reason, the rigid abrahamic religions such as Islam and Christianity are at philosophical odds with the cultural norms of the masses, and have not gained much of a following considering the centuries of aggressive attempts at conversion through force and coercion. This is also why Hinduism never expanded much beyond the boundaries of India -- it is inherently reflective of the idiosyncrasies of Indian culture. Btw in the 3rd century bc Buddhism was the dominant religion in the Indian subcontinent, but Hinduism eventually absorbed Buddho-Jainist practices and evolved into the Hinduism that one sees in india now. The populations that were converted to Buddhism in the indian periphery (central Asia, Bengal, present day Pakistan) were converted pretty easily to Islam during the Turkic incursions of the Middle Ages.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:11 AM
kyh
 
Location: Malaysia & Singapore
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If the Dutch and British were as zealous and as determined as their Catholic counterparts (particularly the Portuguese and Spaniards) in evangelization efforts during their centuries of domination in the East, a larger part of the population in Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Maldives, Sri Lanka, Myanmar etc would have been Christian today. The Dutch were zealous Protestants during the first few decades of their rule, and was determined to stem out the Catholicism of the Portuguese in their colonized lands. However, they later emphasized more on mercantile activities and trade like the Brits after them and all religions were allowed to flourish.

The decline of Buddhism in India was largely due to the invasion of the Muslim armies which enforced their religion on the masses, esp in Pakistan, northern India, and Afghanistan, and destroyed and looted thousands of non-Muslim religious structures along the way. Also, the resurgence of Hinduism among the Indian peoples over the centuries gradually displaced Buddhism as a predominant religion once again.
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Old 03-24-2013, 04:00 PM
 
1,434 posts, read 2,115,696 times
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Originally Posted by BayArea32 View Post
Hinduism is tied intrinsically with Indian identity. Indians have a cultural predication for being argumentative, subversive, and contradictory. For this reason, the rigid abrahamic religions such as Islam and Christianity are at philosophical odds with the cultural norms of the masses, and have not gained much of a following considering the centuries of aggressive attempts at conversion through force and coercion. This is also why Hinduism never expanded much beyond the boundaries of India -- it is inherently reflective of the idiosyncrasies of Indian culture. Btw in the 3rd century bc Buddhism was the dominant religion in the Indian subcontinent, but Hinduism eventually absorbed Buddho-Jainist practices and evolved into the Hinduism that one sees in india now. The populations that were converted to Buddhism in the indian periphery (central Asia, Bengal, present day Pakistan) were converted pretty easily to Islam during the Turkic incursions of the Middle Ages.

Indians have a cultural predication for being argumentative, subversive, and contradictory. For this reason, the rigid abrahamic religions such as Islam and Christianity are at philosophical odds with the cultural norms of the masses

What a load of ****!



The populations that were converted to Buddhism in the indian periphery (central Asia, Bengal, present day Pakistan) were converted pretty easily to Islam during the Turkic incursions of the Middle Ages.


Not hard to convert ppl when you use a sword and promise death!
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Old 03-24-2013, 05:02 PM
 
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What expertise do you have on indian culture and/or history?
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BayArea32 View Post
What expertise do you have on indian culture and/or history?
And you?
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