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Old 04-18-2013, 01:47 AM
 
Location: Texas
843 posts, read 1,377,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm31828 View Post
My wife is from mainland China, and certainly what she and her family say leads me to believe they very much hate Taiwan. They think the current situation is a disgrace, and that Taiwan needs to be taken back even if it means the island being "awash in blood" as they put it. I was shocked that they even care that much, it has been this way their entire lives, and it doesn't affect them personally.
There are people crazy about politics everywhere. Taiwan is a de facto seperate entity in almost every sense, why some taiwanese want to rename the repubic of China to the republic of taiwan?

In fact, taiwan is quite blessed and the people there should be really satisfied with their good luck.

If the ROC defeated the communists after the war, PRC would cease to exist and China would be a way better place to live. And possibly,China would not be a creepy third world country as it is today.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:05 AM
 
Location: Czech Republic
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Originally Posted by Ag77845 View Post
Traditionally, taiwan is part of China, that's why taiwan is also called the Republic of China(ROC). Republic of China used to control the entire China before 1949, also a U.S ally.

After 1949, Republic of China lost the mainland to the communists and retreated to taiwan. Mainland became the communist China, which is called the People's Republic of China(PRC). At this point, there were two Chinese governments and both claim to be the only legitimate government. And be aware that at ROC was strongly against taiwan independence at that time.

ROC attempted to get the mainland back with the help of the U.S, but later realized that it's just impossible. In 1970s, the U.S recognized PRC, communist China to be the legit government of China but at the same time remained ally with ROC(taiwan). Things got even more complicated after that. Younger taiwanese didn't feel connected to the mainland anymore, and the movement of the independance of taiwan was on the rise.

To sum it up, it was the civil war between ROC and PRC that led to the split of China. Think about the case about the Confederate States of America. The U.S was already large, why would some Americans want to get Confederacy? Texas alone is good enough to be an independent country, and Texas would be better without the incompetent Washingtong D.C.
If Texas wanted independence from America then why didn't they ask for it ? There are so many from USSR who seeked independence and got it.
Taiwan is already okay on its own and why would they want to be a part of Communism ?
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:46 AM
 
Location: Texas
843 posts, read 1,377,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermosaa View Post
If Texas wanted independence from America then why didn't they ask for it ? There are so many from USSR who seeked independence and got it.
Taiwan is already okay on its own and why would they want to be a part of Communism ?
It's not possible for a state to secede from the Union legally after the civil war legally.


Gov. Perry Reacts to Petition for Texas to Secede
Texas A&M Political Science Professor Jon R. Bond, Ph.D. said Texas cannot secede from nation. “The Civil War settled that constitutional question,” Bond said. “Once you are a state, you are always a state. Texas cannot opt out.”
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Bike to Surf!
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The Texas-Taiwan comparison is not valid. A more valid comparison would be Russia and Georgia. When the USSR collapsed, different systems of government were set up in the Eastern Bloc countries. Today, Georgia and Russia have very different governments--with Russia's becoming more and more authoritarian. This is similar to what happened when the Chinese Empire dissolved into Nationalists and Communists.

Also, Taiwan has many layers of cultures going back thousands of years. There is a significant native aboriginal population, as well as large populations of Chinese immigrants who came over in various waves starting hundreds of years before the Nationalists retreated to the island.
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Texas
843 posts, read 1,377,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger42 View Post
The Texas-Taiwan comparison is not valid. A more valid comparison would be Russia and Georgia. When the USSR collapsed, different systems of government were set up in the Eastern Bloc countries. Today, Georgia and Russia have very different governments--with Russia's becoming more and more authoritarian. This is similar to what happened when the Chinese Empire dissolved into Nationalists and Communists.

Also, Taiwan has many layers of cultures going back thousands of years. There is a significant native aboriginal population, as well as large populations of Chinese immigrants who came over in various waves starting hundreds of years before the Nationalists retreated to the island.
North Korea/South Korea is probably a better comparision, whereas PRC is way larger than North Korea.

The cultural/ethinity diversity exists in many areas in China. Taiwan isn't a very special case.

China became ROC after the collapse of the last Chinese Empire. The Communist Party was more like a rebellious organization. By the way, very few Chinese will support the communists if there are options. Most Chinese people who support the reunion of the greater China don't prefer communists government.
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:02 AM
 
1,099 posts, read 1,668,250 times
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Most of the mainland Chinese I met are adamant and sometimes belligerent that Taiwan is a part of China.

For the Taiwanese, there are many different views I have heard. There are some who hope reunification will come one day, but they still like to maintain the status quo as of now because they do not want to live under the present Chinese government. Personal views on how close cross-strait relationships should be differ a lot. There are a few, mostly older folks, who see a very deep attachment to their homeland. There are some Taiwanese who feel that cross-strait relations are like that of long lost or distant relatives. Some want the bond restored. Some just simply think the relationship has been so long ago that they are now very different. I even met a few who think they are educated more in the classical Chinese way with Confucian values and traditional characters that make them traditionally more Chinese than the mainland which suffered under the Cultural Revolution and have lost some of these "traditions."

I have known some surprising facts from pro-independence Taiwanese, such as Taiwan has only been part of the same country as the mainland for a few years in the past century. It was a Japanese colony for 50 years starting at the end of the Qing dynasty. It only became part of the Republic of China after World War II, and after a few years, it was the only territory of the Republic of China! Taiwan also only started to become more Chinese at the end of the Ming dynasty when Zheng Chenggong started a government there at the end of the Ming dynasty and start of the Qing dynasty, in the hope of restoring the Ming throne one day. Zheng Chenggong was half-Japanese. It's also only recently that I knew about things like the 228 incident and know a Taiwanese whose grandparents suffered greatly under the KMT during that time.
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:01 AM
 
Location: Texas
843 posts, read 1,377,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
Most of the mainland Chinese I met are adamant and sometimes belligerent that Taiwan is a part of China.

For the Taiwanese, there are many different views I have heard. There are some who hope reunification will come one day, but they still like to maintain the status quo as of now because they do not want to live under the present Chinese government. Personal views on how close cross-strait relationships should be differ a lot. There are a few, mostly older folks, who see a very deep attachment to their homeland. There are some Taiwanese who feel that cross-strait relations are like that of long lost or distant relatives. Some want the bond restored. Some just simply think the relationship has been so long ago that they are now very different. I even met a few who think they are educated more in the classical Chinese way with Confucian values and traditional characters that make them traditionally more Chinese than the mainland which suffered under the Cultural Revolution and have lost some of these "traditions."

I have known some surprising facts from pro-independence Taiwanese, such as Taiwan has only been part of the same country as the mainland for a few years in the past century. It was a Japanese colony for 50 years starting at the end of the Qing dynasty. It only became part of the Republic of China after World War II, and after a few years, it was the only territory of the Republic of China! Taiwan also only started to become more Chinese at the end of the Ming dynasty when Zheng Chenggong started a government there at the end of the Ming dynasty and start of the Qing dynasty, in the hope of restoring the Ming throne one day. Zheng Chenggong was half-Japanese. It's also only recently that I knew about things like the 228 incident and know a Taiwanese whose grandparents suffered greatly under the KMT during that time.
lol, a ton of Taiwanese people believe that Taiwan should be part of Japan. Even more amusing, there are Taiwanese people who claim that Taiwan should be U.S territory.
See:51st state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:04 AM
 
Location: Czech Republic
2,384 posts, read 5,847,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag77845 View Post
lol, a ton of Taiwanese people believe that Taiwan should be part of Japan. Even more amusing, there are Taiwanese people who claim that Taiwan should be U.S territory.
See:51st state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Taiwan should just be Taiwan
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:27 PM
 
6,056 posts, read 10,841,175 times
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Originally Posted by sponger42 View Post
Pastandpresent pretty much sums it up. Most Taiwanese I've known do not want reunification with the PRC as it currently exists. They don't want the rigid government control, they like democratic self-rule, and they don't want censorship of their media. Taiwan has come a long way since the Nationalists retreated there and established a dictatorship under Chiang Kai-Shek. They had a string of benevolent and semi-benevolent dictators until transitioning to democratic rule in 1993. They like their system of government--even though it tends to run into two-party loggerheads just like the USA--and certainly don't want to regress to the Party Cronyism of China.

Not to mention that Taiwan is solidly 1st world, while most of China is still a developing country (with the exception of the major cities). Mainlanders are viewed as rude and uncouth, and the Taiwanese have adapted German, Swiss, or Japanese-like sensibilities (showing respect even to those you disagree with, pleasantries, cleanliness, ecologically-friendly mindset, and an interest in travel and getting to know the rest of the world).

However, tensions between China and Taiwan are at historical low levels. Both countries have formed strong economic ties. I don't think any Taiwanese has delusions of leading a revolution in China and re-establishing the ROC on the mainland, but I think they do hope for democratic reform in the PRC. I think that democratic rule is a prerequisite to reunification in the minds of all Taiwanese who are not pro-independence.
You also wrote a very specific, and informative summary for Taiwan vs. China! The independence of Taiwan is definitely a success and Taiwan is so lucky for the process of independence, and separate country status happening so easily, peacefully, and relatively well.

Yeah, Taiwanese people are some of the best in the World, and I rank them in the top 10 for favorite countries in people scene, national character, and personality. I appreciate and respect Chinese people too, but Taiwanese on average are even more relaxing, easygoing, balanced, intellectual, and progressive. However, Chinese people also do well for those qualities in character, just not to the Taiwanese level. Taiwan is definitely more ecologically friendly at this time, and Taiwanese people a bit more worldly and interested in traveling everywhere compared to the slightly more provincial Chinese.

Well, some areas of China already reached 1st world status, especially when including Hong Kong+Shanghai, and is quickly expanding on this standard in economic development for more areas of China. In terms of economy, China actually became more capitalist with less communist influence.

Do you believe China would ever attempt to become more democratic in government/political system, and take away the communism?

I also wonder if China would ever became much more ecologically friendly for environmental laws and standards in the sustainability of cities.
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Texas
843 posts, read 1,377,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepastpresentandfuture View Post
You also wrote a very specific, and informative summary for Taiwan vs. China! The independence of Taiwan is definitely a success and Taiwan is so lucky for the process of independence, and separate country status happening so easily, peacefully, and relatively well.

Yeah, Taiwanese people are some of the best in the World, and I rank them in the top 10 for favorite countries in people scene, national character, and personality. I appreciate and respect Chinese people too, but Taiwanese on average are even more relaxing, easygoing, balanced, intellectual, and progressive. However, Chinese people also do well for those qualities in character, just not to the Taiwanese level. Taiwan is definitely more ecologically friendly at this time, and Taiwanese people a bit more worldly and interested in traveling everywhere compared to the slightly more provincial Chinese.

Well, some areas of China already reached 1st world status, especially when including Hong Kong+Shanghai, and is quickly expanding on this standard in economic development for more areas of China. In terms of economy, China actually became more capitalist with less communist influence.

Do you believe China would ever attempt to become more democratic in government/political system, and take away the communism?

I also wonder if China would ever became much more ecologically friendly for environmental laws and standards in the sustainability of cities.
Politics aside, Taiwan and mainland China share basically the same language and similar culture(like U.S and Canada). I'd say the tension is all about politics, it doesn't affect people personally as long as they are not crazy about politics.

Hong Kong is a special case, I assume everybody knows it already. Shanghai is a super large city where you can find more luxury hotels and high-end restaurants than Houston. However, it has a long way to reach 1st world status, yet Shanghai is surely different from a very typical third world city.

The current government system is good for the communists party and bad for Chinese people, high-profile communists leaders don't want to give up their power. Back to the 80s, Deng leadership successfully introduced some capitalism and democracy to communist China, making China way better than North Korea and he expected future communists leaders to follow his progressive revolution. Unfortunately, China's leaders in the 21st century make regressive policies to reinforce communist control and reduce personal freedom and private coporate freedom(only state-owned corporations can operate railroad,mass media, utilities, wireless carriers, etc, the list goes on and on). Private sector economy growth is hurt by over-regulation and heavy tax.

My predictation is, China isn't going to be much better in the near future.
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