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Old 04-25-2013, 06:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
I see French influence everywhere in Vietnam. Hanoi's French Quarter....but not just that, but much of Hanoi and Saigon are built of a French colonial style. Than you have things like baguettes and various French breads (which is unusual, as most of Asia, it's always been rice).

On top of that, the times I've been to Vietnam (twice for a month each), I've overheard and seen many many many French tourists all over the place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Yes, I spent two months in Vietnam, including a month in Hanoi in the French Quarter. That's French colonial architecture. Those baguettes originally came from France. Those are facts, that aren't even in debate.

You'll also see and hear French tourists too. Plenty of them. If you haven't seen them or heard them, it doesn't mean they aren't there.

Yes, I've also been to France. Why is that important? Does that give me credibility for recognizing colonial French things, which by definition with the 'colonial' word in them, are a bit different? If you were expecting them to be exactly the same, you shouldn't have.

The more I get to know about Vietnam, the more impressive, intriguing, and culturally vibrant Vietnam appears to me. I used to not consider Vietnam as a place to visit, but now I definitely view Vietnam as a worthwhile place to visit and experience, but for more reasons other than related to this topic.

Oh, so you view the French influence in Vietnam not being so subtle and more prominent than expected. At the minimum, there is at least some subtle influence in caf bar scene, architecture, immigrant population connections, tiny bit of the food scene, film scene, and maybe some Vietnamese learning French language. A lot of people have no idea France-Vietnam have any existing connections with each other, and I was quite surprised when I found this out very recently.

There is a large Vietnamese community in France, with 250,000 to 300,000 people of Vietnamese ethnic heritage living in France, one of the largest for any Asian nationalities.

The French quarter/District 3 in Saigon sounds so interesting and fun to explore. Does the architecture of French colonial buildings in Vietnam have any resemblance to mainland France’s architecture?

I didn’t know Vietnam was a popular tourism destination for the French. This most likely is for French people of Vietnamese heritage, and not all French people.

Last edited by Thepastpresentandfuture; 04-25-2013 at 06:42 PM..
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:57 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
I see French influence everywhere in Vietnam. Hanoi's French Quarter....but not just that, but much of Hanoi and Saigon are built of a French colonial style. Than you have things like baguettes and various French breads (which is unusual, as most of Asia, it's always been rice).

On top of that, the times I've been to Vietnam (twice for a month each), I've overheard and seen many many many French tourists all over the place.
You can definitely see the French legacy in Vietnam. As you said, from the architecture, especially in Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh and the hill resorts of Dalat and Sapa, to some of the street foods like baguettes and Banh Mi. I even saw french fries being sold next to Vietnamese spring rolls! Many older Vietnamese also speak French. Catholicism is a prominent if minority faith in Vietnam, some towns are predominantly Catholic and full of Catholic churches and tons of statues of Jesus and Mary. Of course, French culture isn't terribly relevant to the ordinary Vietnamese and their life, but it's definitely there.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:27 PM
 
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The French abandoned Chinese characters in Vietnam and changed their script to Latin alphabets.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:32 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
The French abandoned Chinese characters in Vietnam and changed their script to Latin alphabets.
I think the Vietnamese felt the new system was easier to learn - remember Vietnam like China was mostly illiterate at the time - so they adopted a modified Latin script.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
I think the Vietnamese felt the new system was easier to learn - remember Vietnam like China was mostly illiterate at the time - so they adopted a modified Latin script.
But that assumption is wrong. Japan, Hong Kong and Taiwan have the highest literacy rates in the world. Even mainland China is better than the vast majority of developing countries.
Many Vietnamese words are loanwords from Chinese (and sometimes indirectly from Japanese). Now they've lost that root forever. Truly a pity.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:46 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
But that assumption is wrong. Japan, Hong Kong and Taiwan have the highest literacy rates in the world. Even mainland China is better than the vast majority of developing countries.
Many Vietnamese words are loanwords from Chinese (and sometimes indirectly from Japanese). Now they've lost that root forever. Truly a pity.
I mean at the time, in the early 20th century, most Chinese were illiterate.

Yes there are arguments for and against romanisation, Vietnam decided on that path. They seem to be doing rather well with it I suppose. I think romanisation would be a good thing for China and Japan, especially Japan, although it would be a shame if they abandoned that part of their tradition. Korea's hanggul system is apparently really easy to learn and use.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
I mean at the time, in the early 20th century, most Chinese were illiterate.

Yes there are arguments for and against romanisation, Vietnam decided on that path. They seem to be doing rather well with it I suppose. I think romanisation would be a good thing for China and Japan, especially Japan, although it would be a shame if they abandoned that part of their tradition. Korea's hanggul system is apparently really easy to learn and use.
Yeah, I mean "assuming Chinese characters are too hard to learn" is wrong.

In Chinese, a morpheme is usually only one syllable, and the syllable structure of Chinese is rather simple. Romanization will be a disaster: there will be thousands of homophones. Needless to say a Mandarin speaker would never be able to understand scripts written by a Cantonese speaker.

Now a Chinese can understand what is discussed on a Japanese newspaper, more or less. It is an advantage.
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:00 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Yeah, I mean "assuming Chinese characters are too hard to learn" is wrong.

In Chinese, a morpheme is usually only one syllable, and the syllable structure of Chinese is rather simple. Romanization will be a disaster: there will be thousands of homophones. Needless to say a Mandarin speaker would never be able to understand scripts written by a Cantonese speaker.

Now a Chinese can understand what is discussed on a Japanese newspaper, more or less. It is an advantage.
I've heard that it's a lot harder to memorise all the Chinese characters in general: that it takes far longer for a Chinese student to learn to read and write than one learning English.

Obviously, quoc ngu, the Vietnamese writing system, has tone markers that differentiate tone so such a system would be employed if they agreed on a system of romanisation.

The last part, not so sure...Japanese contains many hiragana and katakana characters that Chinese people can't read.
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
I've heard that it's a lot harder to memorise all the Chinese characters in general: that it takes far longer for a Chinese student to learn to read and write than one learning English.

Obviously, quoc ngu, the Vietnamese writing system, has tone markers that differentiate tone so such a system would be employed if they agreed on a system of romanisation.

The last part, not so sure...Japanese contains many hiragana and katakana characters that Chinese people can't read.
I really think Chinese characters are very difficult for adult learners only. Usually students in China start to compose essays in third grade (8 years old), the same as kids in western countries. A Chinese student can read almost everything in Chinese language by 15 years old, including those related to medicine, science and technology (not to say they fully understand the concepts). However, many adult Americans can't understand medical terms in English (because of the loanwords from Latin).

kana is used for functional words, some originally Japanese words and loanwords from the west only. Without them a Chinese person can still get the main idea of a Japanese article. Because in formal written Japanese, 70% words are Chinese or similar to Chinese.
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
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The French left a Catholic presence in Vietnam. It is still there, but Catholics have been persecuted since Vietnam was reunified in 1975. This may be why a disproportionate number of the Vietnamese diaspora are Catholic. There is also a French influence in Vietnamese pastries and coffee.

Bnh m - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A1...%E1%BB%87t_Nam)

Vietnamese iced coffee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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