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Old 06-07-2013, 09:52 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aceofangel View Post
I've never seen anyone call Chinese characters kanji. The term hanzi is not used as much because it is inherently Chinese. People who typically know what a kanji is knows that it is a borrowed system from China. Even disregarding all that I don't think calling Chinese character "kanji" is wrong. Kanji and hanja are by definition Chinese characters. It would sound wierd but it wouldn't be incorrect.
It's not "wrong", but it's like calling Latin alphabet "French alphabet" or "English alphabet". Kind of weird unless in some specific contexts.
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:54 AM
 
Location: NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
It's not "wrong", but it's like calling Latin alphabet "French alphabet" or "English alphabet". Kind of weird.
That analogy doesn't work. Hanzi/kanji/hanja all mean "Chinese characters". So your analogy applied to this context would be akin to saying "Latin Alphabet" said in Latin, French or English mean differently.
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aceofangel View Post
That analogy doesn't work. Hanzi/kanji/hanja all mean "Chinese characters". So it would be akin to saying "Latin Alphabet" said in Latin, French or English mean differently. They mean the same thing.
I know they "mean the same thing", but I don't like the idea to use the term "kanji" in English.
Kanji should not be the proper term to describe Chinese characters, in English language; unless they are talking about Chinese characters used in Japanese only. Clear?
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:05 AM
 
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A better example is like this:

We know John and Johann have the same origin. Now because English is more popular for some reason, we translate all Johann's to John's in Chinese, and when we speak Chinese we call a German guy John (with Chinese rendering). Isn't it weird? It would be even worse to call an Italian guy Giovanni that way.
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:09 AM
 
Location: NYC
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That is still a poor analogy as names are not analogous.

A better example would be you are speaking in a language and then randomly use equivalent words in another language as part of a sentence.
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Old 06-07-2013, 02:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aceofangel View Post
That is still a poor analogy as names are not analogous.

A better example would be you are speaking in a language and then randomly use equivalent words in another language as part of a sentence.
Since you understand the point what is the purpose for me to make more analogies?
We are discussing about a real issue, not demonstrating our debating skills anyway.

BTW those names do have concrete meanings in Hebrew. Nowadays Europeans usually don't know it.
Almost all Chinese characters have a meaning too, but sometimes people also ignore or don't know the meaning in a compound word. I suspect nowadays many Koreans and Vietnamese have no idea how those words are constructed, since they do not use Chinese characters any more. But this is another topic.

Last edited by Bettafish; 06-07-2013 at 02:42 PM..
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:08 PM
 
Location: NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Since you understand the point what is the purpose for me to make more analogies?
We are discussing about a real issue, not demonstrating our debating skills anyway.

BTW those names do have concrete meanings in Hebrew. Nowadays Europeans usually don't know it.
Almost all Chinese characters have a meaning too, but sometimes people also ignore or don't know the meaning in a compound word. I suspect nowadays many Koreans and Vietnamese have no idea how those words are constructed, since they do not use Chinese characters any more. But this is another topic.
I was replying to the flow of the topic in general and you quoted me and replied with some bad analogies. If you are going to do that at least pick the right ones...
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Old 07-20-2015, 04:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
So, you'd only study the characters and know what they meant, in English. So you'd have no concept of pronouncing the characters in Chinese (or Japanese) or any other pronounciation attached to the characters.
Many learn Foreign languages in order to read magazines/researches. I know some people who can understand what written in English/German/Chinese/Japanese, but can not read them out. I wonder if there is any difference among those languages/characters in this regard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Interesting that you mentioned that Chinese only has one meaning for the characters. I don't know Japanese kanji very well, but I do know that each character can have so much varied meaning and different pronounciations, and can be compounded with other characters that again would change meaning. If that isn't like that in written Chinese, that is interesting in itself.
Basically, there is only one pronunciation for one Chinese character. So is Hanja, Chinese characters in Korean.

For example, 虎 is pronounced:
  • hu in Chinese
  • ho in Korean
  • ko and tora in Japanese
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Old 07-20-2015, 04:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trancedout View Post
How did 横浜 become "Yokohama" in English from the original characters?
よ=yo
こ=ko
は=ha
ま=ma

Quote:
Originally Posted by trancedout View Post
There's also a lot less variance in Chinese surnames from what I have noticed, there seem to be so many more Japanese surnames following that pattern.
You are right.

There are several hundreds surnames in China, however, there are more than ten thousands or more in Japan.
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Old 07-20-2015, 04:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
An interesting thing is that Chinese people learn Japanese proper names (of cities, persons etc.) with Chinese pronunciation only. Therefore, they have no idea how these names actually sound in Japanese, or in other languages. Although all educated people in the world know "Tokyo", most Chinese people only understand "Dongjing" and have no idea if you say "Tokyo" to them.

Probably only China and Korea have the same problem.
No. Japan and Korea have agreed to respect each other's pronunciations, so Tokyo is Tokyo in Korean, not Donggyong, and Pusan is Pusan in Japanese, not Fusan.
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