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Old 04-30-2017, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Taipei
6,781 posts, read 5,139,654 times
Reputation: 4582

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I think it's pretty laughable that you have to get so defensive when the truth is being stated.

China's economy is big, but that doesn't make people interested in learning it. It could help with job hunting, no doubt about that, but that's not enough to make people really put their heart into the acquisition, only interest does.

You can keep downplaying Japan all you want. The truth is Japan still has immense cultural output in Asia and beyond. In almost every corner of the world, lots of people grow up watching anime, reading manga, or playing Japanese video games, you can say you hate it (well I for one loathe video games), but that is a fact. People learn Japanese primarily because they are fascinated by Japan, not because of economic reasons. The words weeaboo and Wapanese exist for a reason. Korea is catching up in this regard as well, lots of people are learning Korean because of Kpop, I'll never get the appeal of it, but it's a phenomenon in action.

In addition, you are completely and utterly deluded if you consider American soft power not one of the primary reasons why people learn English when the whole world watches only Hollywood productions and American TV shows. Again, you can hate them all you want, call them garbage and stuff (which I partially agree as I absolutely can't stand superhero and action movies, aka their primary source of income). Soft power is not just about the image of the country, it's more about cultural distribution. America (and England as well) has tons of those, and they go hand in hand with economics.

All these poor non-arguments make you sound extremely bitter and jealous for China has none of those. You really just can't handle any criticism regarding China, even when it's just a description of the current situation of a language.
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Old 04-30-2017, 09:30 PM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,650,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
It is because Spanish and French are way easier than Chinese. They take 1/5 of the effort to be reasonably fluent for an English speaker. And Spanish is basical an official language in the US.
I think they are common because of Spanish influence in the US and the historical influence of French. Yes they are easier to learn, but they are popular because they are major languages in the US and North America.

Mandarin isn't very influential (yet!), outside of Asia.
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Old 04-30-2017, 09:34 PM
 
211 posts, read 122,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
like always, never miss a chance to put down China.

Of course mandarin can't compare with English Spanish or French, all those old empire languages due to history. But Portuguese? really? First, China's economy is far more than all the portuguese countries combined. two, Mandarin is one of the official language of the UN, a privilege few have.

China's economy is 50% more than the entire Spanish speaking world, not even including HK, Taiwan, Singapore. In fact, all the spanish speaking countries combined is hardly larger than Japan in terms of economic size.

As to Japanese, I do respect Japan, But Japan has been declining for 30 years, and Japan is not coming back. In 40 years, Japan will lose 1/3 of the population.

Soft power? for a Taiwanese, probably. You think everything in Japan is a huge deal. Japan can hardly do anything internationally without US approval. It should really obtain some diplomatic independence (instead of being somewhere else's little lackey) first before claiming "soft power".

Soft power is something countries like Canada love to talk about, because they have no hard power. I don't remember any time soft power achieved anything in this world. I am sure Finland or Sweden must have a lot of it, but nobody in reality listens to soft power, unless they want to.

Of course foreigners won't try to learn Mandarin en mass. Only English has that kind of status.

"number of countries where a language is spoken" is really insignificant. People don't really learn a language just to travel. They learn it (other than personal interest) to do business. A language's prominent is almost directly proportional to the economic size of those country where it is spoken. English's status is PURELY to the economic size of the US, without which, few people would be interested in learning it.
Don't fool yourself with those GDPs. China is still poor, dude. It only gives the impression it is otherwise since Chinese population is humongous. It takes 1.3 billion chinese to produce and share less wealth 300 million americans do. China's wealth is like if 1,000 homeless put their money together would sound richer than 5 middle class people. At the end of the day the supossedly rich are still bums and homeless and the poor ones live comfortable lives. That is China;s superpower unveiled right there.
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Old 04-30-2017, 09:38 PM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,650,093 times
Reputation: 3342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
I think it's pretty laughable that you have to get so defensive when the truth is being stated.

China's economy is big, but that doesn't make people interested in learning it. It could help with job hunting, no doubt about that, but that's not enough to make people really put their heart into the acquisition, only interest does.

You can keep downplaying Japan all you want. The truth is Japan still has immense cultural output in Asia and beyond. In almost every corner of the world, lots of people grow up watching anime, reading manga, or playing Japanese video games, you can say you hate it (well I for one loathe video games), but that is a fact. People learn Japanese primarily because they are fascinated by Japan, not because of economic reasons. The words weeaboo and Wapanese exist for a reason. Korea is catching up in this regard as well, lots of people are learning Korean because of Kpop, I'll never get the appeal of it, but it's a phenomenon in action.

In addition, you are completely and utterly deluded if you consider American soft power not one of the primary reasons why people learn English when the whole world watches only Hollywood productions and American TV shows. Again, you can hate them all you want, call them garbage and stuff (which I partially agree as I absolutely can't stand superhero and action movies, aka their primary source of income). Soft power is not just about the image of the country, it's more about cultural distribution. America (and England as well) has tons of those, and they go hand in hand with economics.

All these poor non-arguments make you sound extremely bitter and jealous for China has none of those. You really just can't handle any criticism regarding China, even when it's just a description of the current situation of a language.
Chinas influence is growing, but it limits itself on global influence by banning things like Facebook and other social sites. Creativity is not promoted in China either, so there hasn't been much influential music, movies, or arts coming out of China for decades. It's changing, but China will remain behind Japan, S Korea, and HK for some time.

Botticelli has some obvious biases against the US and other western countries, but your bias against China is pretty obvious too. Neither of you are necessarily right in your blanket statements.
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Old 04-30-2017, 10:15 PM
 
Location: Taipei
6,781 posts, read 5,139,654 times
Reputation: 4582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
Chinas influence is growing, but it limits itself on global influence by banning things like Facebook and other social sites. Creativity is not promoted in China either, so there hasn't been much influential music, movies, or arts coming out of China for decades. It's changing, but China will remain behind Japan, S Korea, and HK for some time.
I don't see how it's changing when the restriction keeps tightening up. It's been forever that the only overseas market for Chinese films/TV shows/music etc. is just Taiwan. There are a few exceptions, but very limited.

And I don't see how Hong Kong is ahead in any way. It was, but not any more, nothing is really from Hong Kong now.

I also don't see how saying that Mandarin will never be as popular as people say a "bias against China". It's just reality. It's true that there are a lot of foreigners that have been trying to learn it, but most don't stick, for the reasons I stated. Until that changes I don't see how Mandarin can have any profound influence beyond East Asia, or even beyond the Sinophone.

Unless you have other evidence of otherwise. I'd be happy to know it.
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Old 05-01-2017, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
1,861 posts, read 3,429,737 times
Reputation: 1801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
I don't see how it's changing when the restriction keeps tightening up. It's been forever that the only overseas market for Chinese films/TV shows/music etc. is just Taiwan. There are a few exceptions, but very limited.

And I don't see how Hong Kong is ahead in any way. It was, but not any more, nothing is really from Hong Kong now.

I also don't see how saying that Mandarin will never be as popular as people say a "bias against China". It's just reality. It's true that there are a lot of foreigners that have been trying to learn it, but most don't stick, for the reasons I stated. Until that changes I don't see how Mandarin can have any profound influence beyond East Asia, or even beyond the Sinophone.

Unless you have other evidence of otherwise. I'd be happy to know it.
I get CCTV on my cable network and I've known people who have Hong Kong's TVB as well. I'm over on the East Coast BTW, which has arguably less influence from East Asia than the West Coast. There is (or at least was) a TVB network office in San Francisco's Chinatown. I don't know where you are getting at that only Taiwan's film and TV industry went overseas.
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Old 05-01-2017, 06:14 PM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,650,093 times
Reputation: 3342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
I get CCTV on my cable network and I've known people who have Hong Kong's TVB as well. I'm over on the East Coast BTW, which has arguably less influence from East Asia than the West Coast. There is (or at least was) a TVB network office in San Francisco's Chinatown. I don't know where you are getting at that only Taiwan's film and TV industry went overseas.
We get CCTV English over the air here in eastern Kansas. I don't remember the channel, but it runs for 1-2 hours a day. A lot of it is China centric news and there is still a lot of Chinese spoken with English subtitles. CCTV is a very big news outlet, especially relative to just a few years ago. It's very comparable to BBC, but not quite that influential.

China movies and tv are becoming more and more popular, the big hits are still mostly HK actors in mainland movies. The Great Wall comes to mind as a decently sized big hit from China. There is probably one major movie coming out of China into western theatres every year now, S Korea and Japan don't even do that. But China has a long way to go to really reach outside audiences with its entertainment.

I think he was saying that mainland Chinese entertainment mostly goes to Taiwan, which is true, but they share a common language, so it makes sense.
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Old 05-01-2017, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,369 posts, read 552,866 times
Reputation: 1113
There are still many people in Macau who are speaking Portuguese. In fact, there is a Portuguese Language and Literature Department in their university.

And if you stroll into any old style Portuguese restaurant, i.e. Solmar, you can hear many Mecanese customers chatting in Portuguese.

Unlike British in Hong Kong, who have more or less moved all their population out of the city after 1997 but still wields enormous economic influence, i.e. HSBC, Cathay Pacific, Swire, Jardine & Matheson,....etc which still control many major industries in the City, the Portuguese basically gave up economic control of the enclave even before 1999 but the Portuguese descendants didn't migrate. In fact, some of them have lived in the enclave for almost 600 years. Why would they leave?

If anyone bothers to study history, Macau used to be very important, i.e. conduit for Catholic Church to spread Christianity in Asia. Go watch Martin Scorsese's movie "Silence". Only until the emergence of Hong Kong in mid-19th century was Macau's role being replaced.

Compared with other former colonies of Portugal, i.e. East Timor, Mozambique, Goa, Macau's Portuguese legacy is much better preserved.
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Old 05-01-2017, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,369 posts, read 552,866 times
Reputation: 1113
I would say it is easy to determine if a culture is still alive in the territory.

Look at the restaurants. There are many more Portuguese restaurants in Macau than before 1999. Some even offer dual menus -- Portuguese and Mecanese food. There is even Brazilian restaurant.

There used to be a lot of White Russians in Tianjin, Shanghai (till 1930s) and Hong Kong (till 1960s). Do you see any Russian restaurants in those cities?
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Old 05-01-2017, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Taipei
6,781 posts, read 5,139,654 times
Reputation: 4582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
I get CCTV on my cable network and I've known people who have Hong Kong's TVB as well. I'm over on the East Coast BTW, which has arguably less influence from East Asia than the West Coast. There is (or at least was) a TVB network office in San Francisco's Chinatown. I don't know where you are getting at that only Taiwan's film and TV industry went overseas.
I said Chinese films and TV shows only go overseas to Taiwan and nothing beyond, which is true. Name one Chinese show on American television that is not on the Chinese cable news channels. I'd love to know which shows have gone there as they might be good.
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