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Old 04-23-2017, 08:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trebaruna View Post
Portuguese will die out in Macau, pretty much like English in Hong Kong. Even in the US and Canada it is very common to find Chinese people being incapable of uttering 2 words in English. I find hard to believe they acculturate that much while in their land.
Only the Portuguese part of your post is true. Many Chinese are still first generation immigrants. And most Chinese can speak decent English in both the US and Canada. I'm active in the Chinese community where I live in the US and the majority of Chinese speak English well. There are also a lot of Chinese tourists in the US who likely don't speak much English.

In China it's common for younger generations to be able to speak at least a little English. Actually, English is probably the only language Beijing isn't hostile against besides mandarin. I don't think English is disappearing from Hong Kong anytime soon. It is the third language after mandarin and Cantonese, but Beijing is more hostile to Cantonese. The number of English speakers (as a second language) in China is increasing drastically.
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Old 04-24-2017, 04:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
I think Beijing is more irked by Cantonese than Portuguese though.

Most of the language policies are between Cantonese and Mandarin....I don't think there is any conflict at all between Mandarin and Portuguese for Macau. Beijing could care less about whatever Portuguese is here, particularly since most Chinese can't speak or read it anyways.

That being said, Portuguese is here in Macau though, just not used or known by many Chinese-speakers.
I agree.

Reason is simple, nobody in China will consider speaking Portuguese (or English) as part of their "identity". Cantonese on the other hand, is different. Beijing does not want a Catalonia.
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Old 04-24-2017, 05:05 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trebaruna View Post
Portuguese will die out in Macau, pretty much like English in Hong Kong. Even in the US and Canada it is very common to find Chinese people being incapable of uttering 2 words in English. I find hard to believe they acculturate that much while in their land.
The bolded part has absolutely no basis in reality, tbh.
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Old 04-24-2017, 09:56 AM
 
211 posts, read 121,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
Only the Portuguese part of your post is true. Many Chinese are still first generation immigrants. And most Chinese can speak decent English in both the US and Canada. I'm active in the Chinese community where I live in the US and the majority of Chinese speak English well. There are also a lot of Chinese tourists in the US who likely don't speak much English.

In China it's common for younger generations to be able to speak at least a little English. Actually, English is probably the only language Beijing isn't hostile against besides mandarin. I don't think English is disappearing from Hong Kong anytime soon. It is the third language after mandarin and Cantonese, but Beijing is more hostile to Cantonese. The number of English speakers (as a second language) in China is increasing drastically.
Immigrants by definition can only last one generation. If they're born in the us then they're not immigrants. I was talking about Chinese in the US, not Chinese-Americans. I don't know where you live but in California home to the largest Chinese communities many Chinese immigrants don't speak English even after being here for years. They often live in segregated communities, which doesn't help to learn, Many also have no interest in learning. This makes me question the impact of English in Hong Kong.
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Old 04-24-2017, 07:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
The bolded part has absolutely no basis in reality, tbh.
Go to 8 Ave in Brooklyn, NY or Flushing, Queens. Many of the Chinese there can't even say "hello" in English
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Old 04-25-2017, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
1,859 posts, read 3,422,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
I think Beijing is more irked by Cantonese than Portuguese though.

Most of the language policies are between Cantonese and Mandarin....I don't think there is any conflict at all between Mandarin and Portuguese for Macau. Beijing could care less about whatever Portuguese is here, particularly since most Chinese can't speak or read it anyways.

That being said, Portuguese is here in Macau though, just not used or known by many Chinese-speakers.
The linguistic conflict between Cantonese and Mandarin in places such as Hong Kong, Macau and even Guangdong Province itself is quite similar to that between French and English in Quebec, Canada. Bottom line is, it is good to know some of both in such places in case someone refuses to speak one of the two with you.

I can't see Portuguese being promoted anymore than it has been however. The last time I was in Macau, which was a few years ago, the only time I heard Portuguese spoken was during bus stop announcements. The language was just there for cultural value only. Beijing does not have to repress Portuguese language and culture because it does not need to; it simply isn't in spoken demand.

Macau in the past was a mere rock compared to Hong Kong and Portugal had nowhere the influence that Great Britain, which once ruled an empire, had. The Portuguese were only primarily interested in trade, they were not there to really colonize and influence the local people although there of course was some Christian missionary activity here and there. These reasons probably explain why Portuguese never had the influential strength that English had.
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Old 04-25-2017, 08:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
The linguistic conflict between Cantonese and Mandarin in places such as Hong Kong, Macau and even Guangdong Province itself is quite similar to that between French and English in Quebec, Canada. Bottom line is, it is good to know some of both in such places in case someone refuses to speak one of the two with you.

I can't see Portuguese being promoted anymore than it has been however. The last time I was in Macau, which was a few years ago, the only time I heard Portuguese spoken was during bus stop announcements. The language was just there for cultural value only. Beijing does not have to repress Portuguese language and culture because it does not need to; it simply isn't in spoken demand.

Macau in the past was a mere rock compared to Hong Kong and Portugal had nowhere the influence that Great Britain, which once ruled an empire, had. The Portuguese were only primarily interested in trade, they were not there to really colonize and influence the local people although there of course was some Christian missionary activity here and there. These reasons probably explain why Portuguese never had the influential strength that English had.
To be honest, I don't think there is much of a purpose to learn Cantonese. I'm sure some will be picked up if one lives there. But I live in North China, 415_s2k can probably give a better opinion since he is there.

I don't think Canada tries to minimize French in Canada, unlike China with Cantonese.
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Old 04-25-2017, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,175,100 times
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I think its important to note that it's true that the Chinese don't speak Portuguese in Macau. But, the Portuguese DO speak Portuguese in Macau.

I'm not sure how many Portuguese are here, but there are plenty of Cultural Events that are very accessible to the foreign community, often hosted by Portuguese. As a person who has studied Portuguese, there are places to practice the language here with Portuguese-speakers.

I also want to note that pretty much all of the colleges and universities have Portuguese Language departments, and some of the public schools (K-12) are also in Portuguese. So, while the Chinese themselves don't use Portuguese at all as a first language, it is still a place within the Chinese-speaking world, that recognizes Macau as a place to try to study and learn the language, formally. There are also Portuguese language courses available at the Portuguese Embassy in Macau, recognized in Europe as levels A1, A2, B1, B2, etc. You can gain certificates, which is important for any Macau or Chinese person who wishes to be a Civil Servant in the gov't - they are required to be sufficient in Portuguese to a certain degree.

I'm not saying Portuguese is widely-used at all, but it IS still recognized and valued and available as a language in Macau for Chinese people to aspire to learn (usually for job-related purposes).
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Old 04-25-2017, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Earth
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do they do capoeira in macau?
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Old 04-25-2017, 11:47 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,268,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
I think its important to note that it's true that the Chinese don't speak Portuguese in Macau. But, the Portuguese DO speak Portuguese in Macau.

I'm not sure how many Portuguese are here, but there are plenty of Cultural Events that are very accessible to the foreign community, often hosted by Portuguese. As a person who has studied Portuguese, there are places to practice the language here with Portuguese-speakers.

I also want to note that pretty much all of the colleges and universities have Portuguese Language departments, and some of the public schools (K-12) are also in Portuguese. So, while the Chinese themselves don't use Portuguese at all as a first language, it is still a place within the Chinese-speaking world, that recognizes Macau as a place to try to study and learn the language, formally. There are also Portuguese language courses available at the Portuguese Embassy in Macau, recognized in Europe as levels A1, A2, B1, B2, etc. You can gain certificates, which is important for any Macau or Chinese person who wishes to be a Civil Servant in the gov't - they are required to be sufficient in Portuguese to a certain degree.

I'm not saying Portuguese is widely-used at all, but it IS still recognized and valued and available as a language in Macau for Chinese people to aspire to learn (usually for job-related purposes).
it is spoken by about 0.5% of the population.
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