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Old 01-26-2014, 04:47 AM
 
201 posts, read 264,788 times
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Are we going to discuss the Tarim Basin mummies in this thread?

 
Old 01-30-2014, 02:09 AM
 
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Caucasoid is an arbitrary parameter created in the 19th century. It is a residue, an anachronism. Two people can be 'Caucasoid' and not be closely related. Craniofacial plasticity is much more variable than was originally thought, so racial claims on craniofacial parameters are foolish. In microcosms, you might be able to show some relationship, but in global macrocosms, there are more mistakes than accuracy. Polytopicity is when two different groups of organisms that are not related end up having similar traits.

More like, if they are in similar environments, common factors may play a role in similar attributes. For example people in the circum Sahara developed thinner noses overall because of the dryer, hotter air. In Europe the colder dryer air had a similar effect. When we see broader features, they tend to be more recent migrations to dryer regions from more humid climates. Of course other factors can come into play as well. For example Neanderthals had wide nasal cavities but a very long nose that did a similar function to a thin nose. Clothing has played a huge role in allowing people with certain traits to migrate to regions they did not do so well in naked.

Humanity is infinitely diverse and a beautiful thing. We are playdoh to the environment. And now we change the environment to us.
 
Old 01-30-2014, 06:02 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,228,213 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelismaticEchoes View Post
Caucasoid is an arbitrary parameter created in the 19th century. It is a residue, an anachronism. Two people can be 'Caucasoid' and not be closely related. Craniofacial plasticity is much more variable than was originally thought, so racial claims on craniofacial parameters are foolish. In microcosms, you might be able to show some relationship, but in global macrocosms, there are more mistakes than accuracy. Polytopicity is when two different groups of organisms that are not related end up having similar traits.

More like, if they are in similar environments, common factors may play a role in similar attributes. For example people in the circum Sahara developed thinner noses overall because of the dryer, hotter air. In Europe the colder dryer air had a similar effect. When we see broader features, they tend to be more recent migrations to dryer regions from more humid climates. Of course other factors can come into play as well. For example Neanderthals had wide nasal cavities but a very long nose that did a similar function to a thin nose. Clothing has played a huge role in allowing people with certain traits to migrate to regions they did not do so well in naked.

Humanity is infinitely diverse and a beautiful thing. We are playdoh to the environment. And now we change the environment to us.
Indeed. I don't use the term 'Caucasoid' scientifically, but more as a general, rather vague name for a collection of peoples that sort of resemble each other in cranial structure, higher nose bridge, aquiline narrow long nose.etc that sort of thing. It all sounds rather old-fashioned but I think it has it's uses.
 
Old 01-30-2014, 11:28 PM
 
101 posts, read 230,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Europeans and East Asians look very different now, probably largely due to different maternal lineages.

When type O males entered East Asia, they "married" local women, the so-called proto-Asiatics. These women were probably corresponding to C and D males.

When N and R males entered Europe, they "married" local women as well. These women may have been corresponding to I, J males.

Anyway, East Asians (including Siberians) and Europeans can both handle cold winters well.
Interesting. What about the women corresponding to O males, and the C/D males themselves?
 
Old 01-31-2014, 11:29 PM
 
Location: US Empire, Pac NW
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I wonder if the preponderance of the Y DNA in eastern European bloodlines could be a result of the Mongol invasions? They had a tendency to rape and pillage whichever villages resisted. There's a theory which says that the epicanthic fold in east Asian lineages found its way into Europe by way of the Mongols, especially into Poland.
 
Old 02-16-2014, 07:40 PM
 
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It's gotten much better here in China with the relationship between the Xinjiang people and the Han Chinese. Han still approach and look at them with a slight sense of suspicion, but it's nothing like it was 10 or even 5 years ago when they just assumed all Xinjiang were thieves and bad people. Many Xinjiang run shops in Mainland China and are also out on the streets trying to make money where they can to provide for their families. They seem to keep to themselves and the local gov't usually leave them alone. The biggest challenge is really the cultural and language differences with them and the Han, which many of you already pointed out. I hope the relationship can improve, as I think the Xinjiang people really could offer something different to the people here in China in a positive way.
 
Old 02-16-2014, 09:19 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
The old town of Kashghar was rebuilt. China government said it is for safety, but some other people said it is to destroy a traditional culture. I guess the truth sits in between too.
Of course it was rebuilt to "modernize", and for safety, the traditional dwellings being regarded as unsafe. After a big earthquake in Uzbekistan back around the 1970's or 80's, the Russian gov't used "earthquake safety" as an excuse to eliminate the traditional residential architecture in the capital. A historic quarter in town could be seen as a symbol of ethnic nationalism, and therefore would be undesirable.
 
Old 02-16-2014, 09:25 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanjelman7 View Post
Are we going to discuss the Tarim Basin mummies in this thread?
Funny, the first thing I thought when I saw the thread title was the Russians around Harbin, who are considered one of China's official minorities.


I guess the mummies aren't a minority; the Tocharians no longer exist as a people. I was just reading today that they got chased out of the Tarim Basin by warring Huns (Xiong-nu), who eventually pushed them into present-day Afghanistan (Bactria), and from there they migrated into northwest India. A few groups stayed behind, and joined Tibetan-related peoples around today's Gansu. That's why some Tibetan nomad groups have more Caucasoid features than the more Chinese-looking sedentary Tibetans.
 
Old 02-16-2014, 09:52 PM
 
6,722 posts, read 6,597,578 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastardised View Post
Interesting. What about the women corresponding to O males, and the C/D males themselves?
The women were more likely to be in the ruling class, but outnumbered by other women. East Asia does have many mtDNA patterns, much more complicated than Y-DNA.

The C D males were pushed to Tibet and Siberia, Mongolia. Many were probably slaves and failed to reproduce too.

Japan has many D males till today, so does Korea to some extent. They were protected by the sea.
 
Old 02-21-2014, 03:48 PM
 
101 posts, read 230,777 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
The women were more likely to be in the ruling class, but outnumbered by other women. East Asia does have many mtDNA patterns, much more complicated than Y-DNA.

The C D males were pushed to Tibet and Siberia, Mongolia. Many were probably slaves and failed to reproduce too.

Japan has many D males till today, so does Korea to some extent. They were protected by the sea.
I just find it unlikely for mostly only males who move and not the women. Like there were many corresponding C and D women in the first place because that's where they moved, lol.
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