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Old 09-20-2013, 06:13 PM
 
31 posts, read 89,212 times
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Docman, are you sure that you yourself aren't being brainwashed as well? :P

China is a very populated and dense place, what might seem like a lot of people who are very angry might actually be a comparatively small minority to most people. Most are probably just apathetic towards all this and want to live their lives, get their kids a good education, you know, the usual stuff. Of course that viewpoint won't get broadcasted because media there is heavily monitored.

If you go to South East-Asia and talk to the chinese folk there, their thoughts would be much more in line with what people would usually say about nationalism and such - They'll say they love the culture, and are proud to be Chinese and all that, but they'll also say their current government is just being ****ty and war-mongering as always. (Sound similar to Americans?)
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Old 09-20-2013, 07:27 PM
 
Location: US Empire, Pac NW
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Part history, part government propaganda (and people buying into it / pretending to buy into it lest the secret police push them away).

Without condoning their actions I can give some excuses / rationale behind it, or at least attempt to, from an outsider's opinion.

You have to remember that China has one of the, if not THE, longest recorded histories on Earth. Even their creation story is different. Most cultures, around 95% of them, have a creation story that goes along the lines of "diety/dieties get really bored, create earth through some mystical reaction, create life somehow (wilfully or accidentally) including human life and there you have it." The details change but that's the general gist of it.

China's is a bit different. Their creation story has their society starting when a king of one of many warring states unifies them all in a glorious conquest, thus RESTORING the former kingdom. In other words, they never had a beginning! It was just restoring something that had been destroyed / fallen apart earlier!

Thus, the kernel of the Chinese mentality towards the outside world. They don't want conflict unless unavoidable. They want to exert unquestioned soft power on the outside world. For many centuries / millennia this worked well. Then comes the European powers after the advent of the steam engine, automation, ballistics, and advanced ship design. One after another, China's former sphere of satellites, and other states that usually didn't stand in their way much started becoming territories or colonies. This culminates in the British and the atrocities committed in the Opium wars, then with Japan occupying their cities in WWI and WWII.

China has never recovered from the psychological scars of having been a (mostly) contiguous kingdom that rarely been conquered from the outside. The Mongol invaders had been the last time that happened.

After WWII, Mao knew that to change China and catch up with the West, he had to liberalize the economy. Eventually, it the 70s and 80s, leaders knew they made the wrong choice and started liberalizing towards more mercantilist / capitalist ideas, mixed with authoritarian overtones reminiscent of America's own expansionary phase.

So, prior history of the Chinese believing themselves to be the literal center of the world and master race, combined with what in their mind is recent embarrassing history (mid 1800s to 1940s) leads to the inexorable conclusion that they react towards the outside world with a mixture of admiration and xenophobia. Some take it a step further and say they're incredulous that it is just now that their economy is bigger than Japan's, a country with 1/10 the population.

All in all though, most Chinese (and most east Asians for that matter) believe themselves to be a master race or superior in some way. They don't show it much, but they do think it on some level (Japanese is so incredibly difficult to learn, it's understandable non-Japanese can't speak it... as if the millions who have mastered it speak gibberish ... and other such rubbish). And rarely does it manifest violently. Contrary, most of the time it will either be institutional bias (the machine) or passive-aggressive (crossing the street, avoiding eye contact, avoiding being near you, etc). Chinese and Koreans tend to be more hot-tempered but to be honest you'd have to have been a dick in the first place for them to behave that way.
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:45 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,231,639 times
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There's a question as to when the 'Chinese' civilisation start. The Huaxia? The Shang Dynasty? The Qin? The Han? Either way, it is one of the world's oldest civilisations.

Of course, for many years China itself was a collection of warring states. The dominant kingdom, the state of Qin, took over and expanded into 'China proper' conquering the natives of those lands. So China is more like Europe. Mountains/desert/steppes surround it, so there was no real point in expanding outwards as China was so fertile.

Of course the Jurchen tribes took over China, so it was a conquest in a way, but not as violently as the Mongols. Yes, their insularity, despite distant trade from Rome and later Empires, and their long history of civilisation and government made them think they were the centre of the world. Of course, few were much aware of lay beyond China's borders.

It's true though that in recent times China had no real imperialist designs, unless you count Xinjiang, Mongolia and Tibet. Of course there's a long history there. They did not try to follow Japan's lead of being a colonial power, indeed they struggled to manage their own people/country let alone conquer others.
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Old 09-29-2013, 07:16 PM
 
649 posts, read 981,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aceofangel View Post
Nearly every country in East Asia has problems with nationalism. If anything the U.S. is rather unique in lack of nationalism.
Is this a joke? It's supposed to be a sarcastic post right?
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Old 09-29-2013, 07:26 PM
 
649 posts, read 981,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koolkalang View Post
Docman, are you sure that you yourself aren't being brainwashed as well? :P

China is a very populated and dense place, what might seem like a lot of people who are very angry might actually be a comparatively small minority to most people. Most are probably just apathetic towards all this and want to live their lives, get their kids a good education, you know, the usual stuff. Of course that viewpoint won't get broadcasted because media there is heavily monitored.

If you go to South East-Asia and talk to the chinese folk there, their thoughts would be much more in line with what people would usually say about nationalism and such - They'll say they love the culture, and are proud to be Chinese and all that, but they'll also say their current government is just being ****ty and war-mongering as always. (Sound similar to Americans?)
You need to improve your geography. China is East Asia. Not Southeast Asia. Japan, China, North and South Korea make up East Asia. This is a renowned fact. Beijing is much colder than Tokyo (which has a climate identical to Shanghai) and Harbin rivals the coldest regions of Russia.

Southeast Asia starts from Vietnam and extends down south to Indonesia, furthest southern tip of Indonesia is practically touching Australia (just almost). Southeast Asia is tropical. Even the very most Southern parts of China (Hong Kong, Taiwan, Guangzhou) require boots and sweaters for 4-5 months a year. All the Southeast Asian countries are freaking hot unless you go high up a mountain! Butter-melt-on-ground kind of Dubai hot. There's no change in season or boots/sweatshirt time any part of the year in any Southeast Asian country.

No part of China is tropical except Hainan island and if you consider the joke about Singapore being a Chinese outpost (in many ways, it is).

China has nationalism no more than any other country and less than some segments of the American population (deep south).

Chinese people have a lot of respect for Americans.

South Korea and China both still harbor unresolved old scores and bitterness against Japan because of the war. It's nothing to do with nationalism on any part! This is well known, run in news globally often, especially the comfort women saga and Japanese apology. How anyone can not know this and use any sign of Chinese hatred for Japan to claim Chinese nationalism has got to be an ignorant fool.

Last edited by sadgirl80; 09-29-2013 at 07:49 PM..
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:05 PM
 
31 posts, read 89,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sadgirl80 View Post
You need to improve your geography. China is East Asia. Not Southeast Asia. Japan, China, North and South Korea make up East Asia. This is a renowned fact. Beijing is much colder than Tokyo (which has a climate identical to Shanghai) and Harbin rivals the coldest regions of Russia.

Southeast Asia starts from Vietnam and extends down south to Indonesia, furthest southern tip of Indonesia is practically touching Australia (just almost). Southeast Asia is tropical. Even the very most Southern parts of China (Hong Kong, Taiwan, Guangzhou) require boots and sweaters for 4-5 months a year. All the Southeast Asian countries are freaking hot unless you go high up a mountain! Butter-melt-on-ground kind of Dubai hot. There's no change in season or boots/sweatshirt time any part of the year in any Southeast Asian country.

No part of China is tropical except Hainan island and if you consider the joke about Singapore being a Chinese outpost (in many ways, it is).

China has nationalism no more than any other country and less than some segments of the American population (deep south).

Chinese people have a lot of respect for Americans.

South Korea and China both still harbor unresolved old scores and bitterness against Japan because of the war. It's nothing to do with nationalism on any part! This is well known, run in news globally often, especially the comfort women saga and Japanese apology. How anyone can not know this and use any sign of Chinese hatred for Japan to claim Chinese nationalism has got to be an ignorant fool.
sadgirl80, You misunderstood me. I know where China is, and I know its neighbors. I simply mean that for most Chinese people who are living both inside and outside of China, their views would be similar to what most people in the world want - survival of their kin, a good education, a roof over their heads, and good food on the table. Surely you'll agree with me that there are Chinese people both inside China, and in South East Asia?
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Old 10-01-2013, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Mclean, Va; West Palm Beach, Fl
513 posts, read 806,489 times
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Chinese are proud of their Chinese Culture/History/Country. Self loathing liberals (watch MSNBC to see angry anti american like Ed) dislike the USA because everyone doesnt believe like they do (see socialist liberals running the govt).

Having said that, CHinese women in Shanghai are HOT!!!
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Old 10-02-2013, 12:19 AM
 
Location: Room 603 Building 1 No.32 Xueyuan Road Shanghai China 200010
4 posts, read 3,134 times
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It's really very easy to comment or complement, but it's very difficult to understand and feel by a complete involvement.Simply,I want to share my view that China Loves its culture and respects the most.If you observe, you can easily identify its traditional and modern culture, which is very beautifully balanced.
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:31 AM
 
649 posts, read 981,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koolkalang View Post
sadgirl80, You misunderstood me. I know where China is, and I know its neighbors. I simply mean that for most Chinese people who are living both inside and outside of China, their views would be similar to what most people in the world want - survival of their kin, a good education, a roof over their heads, and good food on the table. Surely you'll agree with me that there are Chinese people both inside China, and in South East Asia?
My post quoting you was only addressing that China is East Asia, not SEA. The rest is to the OP.

Yes I'm aware Chinese people are everywhere and many in SEA. They are everywhere in America, Australia and Canada as well, and many are great mathematicians.
In fact Singapore is geographically in SEA but is 75% Chinese.
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:47 AM
 
649 posts, read 981,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcleanexec View Post
Chinese are proud of their Chinese Culture/History/Country. Self loathing liberals (watch MSNBC to see angry anti american like Ed) dislike the USA because everyone doesnt believe like they do (see socialist liberals running the govt).

Having said that, CHinese women in Shanghai are HOT!!!
My observation is that the Chinese Americans especially those US born or grew up in America don't identify with the country China in any way. They are very American and as far as Chinese culture goes, they view it as their "ethnic culture" if you know what I mean: they see it as part of an old world, something they knew about while growing up in their parents homes. They see it as food they know because of their parents cooking and exposure, and that's about it. It's a shame but most Chinese Americans I know can't read Chinese words and speak it quite to very badly. And most of the girls end up marrying white boys.

Regarding your point about the "liberals", I'd have to disagree with you. Almost all Americans I know are highly patriotic. Some wear it on their sleeve like those down south, others keep it to themselves.

You need a draw a distinction between liking your government and loving your country. Most Americans are very patriotic and they deeply love their country. They just disagree with the people running it. That is why we have a democratic government, and that is its "drawback". We need to accept that whoever elected by our fellow country men may not be people we want. That's why we are angry. Because we care and be share we had a choice. Unlike totalitarian regimes. Do you notice in totalitarian regimes like China and Singapore things don't appear so split and the country has the appearance of unification? It's because though the people are stewing in unhappiness, there's no democracy or two equally strong parties that "split" the country's voices? You reed to understand it and you will not unless you lived in a totalitarian regime before.

-a Chinese American who deeply loves the great USA, born in the USA and with one parent a Chinese former Singaporean
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