U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 04-28-2014, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,235,411 times
Reputation: 2833

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
as I said, it is more atrocious than anything else.
Well maybe in numbers...it is of course a real travesity. I guess from a personal POV the Fall of Singapore was more relevant of course.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-28-2014, 09:45 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,255,922 times
Reputation: 7578
Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryCarr View Post
There is a generational thing at work here. I am sure that many older Chinese do not like the Japanese due to the occupation, and have very good reasons to do so. But like most conflicts around the world, once the conflict is over, reasonable people see that there is a bigger benefit to getting along than continuing to fan the flames, and it applies to this situation too. Of course it doesn't mean all is forgiven, only that time marches on for all of us and holding permanent grudges really does not do anything for anyone..
I agree.

But I don't think China and Japan can coexist in good harmony in the long term.

Japan is an agressive country by nature. If you look at its history, whenever it got strong enough, it invaded Korea first and then China. It has a large population and little resources, whenever it has internal difficult, militarilism arises.

For the past 50 years it is largely neutred by the US, but one should be deceived into believe Japan now is a peace loving country. Westerners tourists usually leave Japan with an impeccable impression, ranking it as one of the most civil and polite country in the world but that's really a very supercial understanding of the Japanese society.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2014, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,235,411 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I agree.

But I don't think China and Japan can coexist in good harmony in the long term.

Japan is an agressive country by nature. If you look at its history, whenever it got strong enough, it invaded Korea first and then China. It has a large population and little resources, whenever it has internal difficult, militarilism arises.

For the past 50 years it is largely neutred by the US, but one should be deceived into believe Japan now is a peace loving country. Westerners tourists usually leave Japan with an impeccable impression, ranking it as one of the most civil and polite country in the world but that's really a very supercial understanding of the Japanese society.
I don't really see what Japan has to gain by aggression. Unless it was backed by the western powers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2014, 09:59 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,255,922 times
Reputation: 7578
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
I don't really see what Japan has to gain by aggression. Unless it was backed by the western powers.
no?

Why was to gain by Japan in 1895? 1937?

Don't be deceived by appearance.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2014, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,235,411 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
no?

Why was to gain by Japan in 1895? 1937?

Don't be deceived by appearance.
We live in a very different world now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2014, 10:42 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,255,922 times
Reputation: 7578
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
We live in a very different world now.
A different world where there is no and never will be wars between countries?
For how many years the world didn't have large scale wars involving multiple countries, like 50, and we suddenly believe "the world is different now"?

I don't believe it. And I don't think the nature of a country will change. If there is something to gain by having a war, there will be wars.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2014, 11:08 AM
 
208 posts, read 222,560 times
Reputation: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I agree.

But I don't think China and Japan can coexist in good harmony in the long term.

Japan is an agressive country by nature. If you look at its history, whenever it got strong enough, it invaded Korea first and then China. It has a large population and little resources, whenever it has internal difficult, militarilism arises.
Keep in mind that it was the era that weak countries which could not stand itself were meant to be colonized. Between 1839 and 1842 Britain fought an "Opium War" against China. Britain won and colonized Hong Kong. During a second war in 1860 a combined British French army attacked Chinese port cities and China signed Beijing treaty with Britain, France and Russia to end the war by paying indemnity and giving up more land. In 1894-95 Japan fought an "First Sino-Japanese War" against China. Japan won and China agreed to give up on its attempts to dominate Korea. Korea had traditionally been a tributary state of China till Japan defeated China(Read Article 1 in Treaty of Shimonoseki). Korea was also weak and destined to be occupied by one country or another because of its location and inability to defend itself. Japan didn’t have to invade Korea. The biggest Korean political group named Isshinkai suggested annexation to Japan. They even built the ‘welcome arch’ for the Japanese in front of Namdaemun.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2014, 11:33 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,255,922 times
Reputation: 7578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsuleneo View Post
Keep in mind that it was the era that weak countries which could not stand itself were meant to be colonized. Between 1839 and 1842 Britain fought an "Opium War" against China. Britain won and colonized Hong Kong. During a second war in 1860 a combined British French army attacked Chinese port cities and China signed Beijing treaty with Britain, France and Russia to end the war by paying indemnity and giving up more land. In 1894-95 Japan fought an "First Sino-Japanese War" against China. Japan won and China agreed to give up on its attempts to dominate Korea. Korea had traditionally been a tributary state of China till Japan defeated China(Read Article 1 in Treaty of Shimonoseki). Korea was also weak and destined to be occupied by one country or another because of its location and inability to defend itself. Japan didn’t have to invade Korea. The biggest Korean political group named Isshinkai suggested annexation to Japan. They even built the ‘welcome arch’ for the Japanese in front of Namdaemun.
the world evolves and who said it won't reach an era where the new weak to be colonized (could be a different form) by the new power again.

I don't think human being/countries have got past military invasion, or ever will.

Plus, old invaders such as Britain, France and Japan plundered billions from other nations and never paid it back. Are we supposed to just call it a day? For example, what will UK/France do to make amends for burning down the old summer palace in Beijing? And what to do with the treasures that are still shamelessly displayed at the British Museum and le Louvre, should UK/France keep them forever?

History always lingers. So much unsolved business.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2014, 12:29 PM
 
Location: British Hong Kong
64 posts, read 58,668 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I agree.

But I don't think China and Japan can coexist in good harmony in the long term.

Japan is an agressive country by nature. If you look at its history, whenever it got strong enough, it invaded Korea first and then China. It has a large population and little resources, whenever it has internal difficult, militarilism arises.

For the past 50 years it is largely neutred by the US, but one should be deceived into believe Japan now is a peace loving country. Westerners tourists usually leave Japan with an impeccable impression, ranking it as one of the most civil and polite country in the world but that's really a very supercial understanding of the Japanese society.
By your standard every major (even some minors) countries on earth are 'aggressive by nature' since all of them would have invade other countries numerous time when they get strong.

Also implying that a history of a country will automatically associate with the characteristics of the nationalities. Someone was born in a very civilised environment and taught of moral and good manner since young, but suddenly everyone discover that his country did horrible things in the past, so he must be deceiving all of us since the beginning! Does this even make sense?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-28-2014, 12:37 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,255,922 times
Reputation: 7578
Quote:
Originally Posted by wowu5 View Post
By your standard every major (even some minors) countries on earth are 'aggressive by nature' since all of them would have invade other countries numerous time when they get strong.

Also implying that a history of a country will automatically associate with the characteristics of the nationalities. Someone was born in a very civilised environment and taught of moral and good manner since young, but suddenly everyone discover that his country did horrible things in the past, so he must be deceiving all of us since the beginning! Does this even make sense?
good moral and manner is only for people around you, those who you think are equal.

Did you think the British invaders didn't receive great education and taught good manners? They just don't apply those to people who they consider inferior.

Thomas Jefferson while being highly respected as one of the founding fathers, was a slave owner and racist. So was Canada's first Prime Minister. I am sure back in the days they were both perfect gentlemen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top