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Old 04-28-2014, 12:50 PM
 
Location: British Hong Kong
64 posts, read 58,777 times
Reputation: 42

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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
good moral and manner is only for people around you, those who you think are equal.

Did you think the British invaders didn't receive great education and taught good manners? They just don't apply those to people who they consider inferior.

Thomas Jefferson while being highly respected as one of the founding fathers, was a slave owner and racist. So was Canada's first Prime Minister. I am sure back in the days they were both perfect gentlemen.

Oxford definition of 'deceiving' : 'Deliberately cause (someone) to believe something that is not true, especially for personal gain'

What you mention is just about the change of social value throughout the age, the definition of being 'civil' has being greatly different depending on the time, in the age of colonialism being 'civil' could include racism as well, but no one at that time would try to deceive anybody of that. They were 'civilized' people by the standard of their time indeed.

If you're to accuse of someone of 'deceiving' the other of oneself being 'civil', he/she must have done something that's inappropriate by the moral standard of his/her age. Only if Japanese are still doing horrible things and massacring people while pretending to be humanistic, that you may think of them as 'deceiving' the other, but obviously that's not the case.

And more importantly, so you do consider that (almost) every countries are 'aggressive by nature' (like Japan as you believed)? This is still unanswered.
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Old 04-28-2014, 01:02 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,289,596 times
Reputation: 7587
Quote:
Originally Posted by wowu5 View Post
Oxford definition of 'deceiving' : 'Deliberately cause (someone) to believe something that is not true, especially for personal gain'

What you mention is just about the change of social value throughout the age, the definition of being 'civil' has being greatly different depending on the time, in the age of colonialism being 'civil' could include racism as well, but no one at that time would try to deceive anybody of that. They were 'civilized' people by the standard of their time indeed.

If you're to accuse of someone of 'deceiving' the other of oneself being 'civil', he/she must have done something that's inappropriate by the moral standard of his/her age. Only if Japanese are still doing horrible things and massacring people while pretending to be humanistic, that you may think of them as 'deceiving' the other, but obviously that's not the case.

And more importantly, so you do consider that (almost) every countries are 'aggressive by nature' (like Japan as you believed)? This is still unanswered.
I am not saying those people are deceiving others about being civil, but that their appearance of being civil is deceiving.

Additionally, people from some rich countries are civil now because they are rich and don't have to kill and rob others any more. When the right times come where there is a need to flight for limited resources to survive, I won't doubt for a second Japan and Britain will do what they were good at again.

Even a princess wouldn't hesitate much to kill a rabbit in the face of starvation. She behaves elegantly most of the time only because she is usually well fed. Moral standards mean something only when there is no pressing need to act immorally.

Let me give you a simple example: many Chinese J-walk. Most Americans don't. Does that mean Americans simply respect traffic rules better? No, because when you go to Manhattan which is as dense as Chinese cities, many people J-walk (no better than in Shanghai).
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Old 04-28-2014, 01:15 PM
 
Location: British Hong Kong
64 posts, read 58,777 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I am not saying those people are deceiving others about being civil, but that their appearance of being civil is deceiving.

Additionally, people from some rich countries are civil now because they are rich and don't have to kill and rob others any more. When the right times come where there is a need to flight for limited resources to survive, I won't doubt for a second Japan and Britain will do what they were good at again.

Even a princess wouldn't hesitate much to kill a rabbit in the face of starvation. She behaves elegantly most of the time only because she is usually well fed. Moral standards mean something only when there is no pressing need to act immorally.

Let me give you a simple example: many Chinese J-walk. Most Americans don't. Does that mean Americans simply respect traffic rules better? No, because when you go to Manhattan which is as dense as Chinese cities, many people J-walk.
Again, the word 'deceive' means to make the others believe in something that's not the true.

Is the current Japan not civil (be it the standard of any countries, some Islamic states excluded for obvious reasons) but only pretend to be under the eyes on foreigner? Do Japanese still massacre and plunder other countries while acting not to be?

If yes than it's indeed deceiving. However the reality is that modern Japan is as civil as it shows to the world. So there's no deceiving involved.



Also as you do consider that the statement 'aggressive by nature' is applicable to all other major countries on earth. Then I'd just like to let the others in this thread know that what you mean by 'Japan is aggressive by nature' basically means it's 'like everyone else', which in some degree means nothing and has no relation to the topic actually.
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Old 04-28-2014, 01:27 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,289,596 times
Reputation: 7587
Quote:
Originally Posted by wowu5 View Post
Again, the word 'deceive' means to make the others believe in something that's not the true.

Is the current Japan not civil (be it the standard of any countries, some Islamic states excluded for obvious reasons) but only pretend to be under the eyes on foreigner? Do Japanese still massacre and plunder other countries while acting not to be?

If yes than it's indeed deceiving. However the reality is that modern Japan is as civil as it shows to the world. So there's no deceiving involved.


Also as you do consider that the statement 'aggressive by nature' is applicable to all other major countries on earth. Then I'd just like to let the others in this thread know that what you mean by 'Japan is aggressive by nature' basically means it's 'like everyone else', which in some degree means nothing and has no relation to the topic actually.
I don't think you truly understood my argument, so I stop arguing with me. Feel free to keep believing Japan is the most civil country in the world.

"Aggressive by nature" may not be fully accurate, but study a bit of Japan's geography and history and you shall realize that it is a country that will be in frequent need to conquer nearby countries. Appealing civil -- really means close to nothing. Most Nazis were civil before turning into human killing machines too.
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Old 04-28-2014, 01:36 PM
 
Location: British Hong Kong
64 posts, read 58,777 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I don't think you truly understood my argument, so I stop arguing with me. Feel free to keep believing Japan is the most civil country in the world.

"Aggressive by nature" may not be fully accurate, but study a bit of Japan's geography and history and you shall realize that it is a country that will be in frequent need to conquer nearby countries. Appealing civil -- really means close to nothing. Most Nazis were civil before turning into human killing machines too.
If you would call '4' (I can even count for you, Korea in 16th Cen, First and Second Sino-Japanese War/WW2 of 1895 and the occupation of Shantung) as 'frequent' already, then no countries did not 'frequently' invade others. All European, American as well as many Asian countries have committed much more than that in the past.
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Old 05-03-2014, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Taipei
6,781 posts, read 5,139,654 times
Reputation: 4582
The answer is very simple tbh.The reason of the serious anti-Japanese sentiment in China is because the wars between the two nations.It's not just about WWII,after the Meiji Restoration,Japanese became very ambitious and the neighboring and weak-ass China was the perfect aim.Japan was a major bully to China around that time.China was so weak that even when Russia was fighting with Japan,they use China's land as battlefield.There were tons of conflicts between China and Japan during this era.
Then the Sino-Japanese war took place,PLENTY of Chinese people were brutally killed during the wartime.The fatalities of Chinese citizens were on par with those of the USSR's.
I think the major reason why Japan is still hated by almost every single country in Asia(except for Taiwan,that's another story.Taiwan is probably the only nation in East Asia that remains amicable with Japan.Unfortunately the friendship could only remain unofficial) is that they have never officially apologized for the crimes they committed during the war.The anti-Japanese sentiment is not something exclusive for Chinese,but for the whole continent.China's sentiment is more apparent is probably because the brain-washing of their governments that a little trigger could cause a tidal wave.

That being said,China is still highly influenced by Japanese culture.It's not like Chinese people hate Japanese so much that they'd assault Japanese tourists or something lol.
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Old 05-03-2014, 02:47 PM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,214,202 times
Reputation: 11624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
The answer is very simple tbh.The reason of the serious anti-Japanese sentiment in China is because the wars between the two nations.It's not just about WWII,after the Meiji Restoration,Japanese became very ambitious and the neighboring and weak-ass China was the perfect aim.Japan was a major bully to China around that time.China was so weak that even when Russia was fighting with Japan,they use China's land as battlefield.There were tons of conflicts between China and Japan during this era.
Then the Sino-Japanese war took place,PLENTY of Chinese people were brutally killed during the wartime.The fatalities of Chinese citizens were on par with those of the USSR's.
I think the major reason why Japan is still hated by almost every single country in Asia(except for Taiwan,that's another story.Taiwan is probably the only nation in East Asia that remains amicable with Japan.Unfortunately the friendship could only remain unofficial) is that they have never officially apologized for the crimes they committed during the war.The anti-Japanese sentiment is not something exclusive for Chinese,but for the whole continent.China's sentiment is more apparent is probably because the brain-washing of their governments that a little trigger could cause a tidal wave.

That being said,China is still highly influenced by Japanese culture.It's not like Chinese people hate Japanese so much that they'd assault Japanese tourists or something lol.
Thanks for a good joke
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Old 05-03-2014, 04:52 PM
 
1,434 posts, read 2,120,891 times
Reputation: 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
why?
because the Japanese outrightly deny it?
because they never apolized for such an atrocity?
because they never made amends to it?

You can't choose to forget history. Why not ask the Jewish to forget about the racial cleansing during WWI and see how they respond.

Civilians do die during wars. But what happened in Nanjing is definitely just one of those collateral damage. It is a deliberate murder and rape of hundreds of thousands of innocent and unarmed men, women and children. I think among all nationals, only the Japanese are capable of doing such a thing. Not even the Nazis.

Did Japan ever say "that's wrong and we apologize to the families"?


Forgive and move on. Take an example of countries all around you. India suffered worse than China due to the Islamic hordes. They did the same things as the Japanese but on a grander scale for a longer period of time. Did India ever get an apology? In order fo China to move forward, it was succeed in exceling in every ther area of development. War should not be the focus. True strength is measured by an opponent having the ability to turn its cheek knowing it can crush its enemy quite easily
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Old 05-03-2014, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,280,333 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post

Let me give you a simple example: many Chinese J-walk. Most Americans don't. Does that mean Americans simply respect traffic rules better? No, because when you go to Manhattan which is as dense as Chinese cities, many people J-walk (no better than in Shanghai).
Most Americans don't? Well a good percentage of Australians do.
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Old 05-03-2014, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,280,333 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
The answer is very simple tbh.The reason of the serious anti-Japanese sentiment in China is because the wars between the two nations.It's not just about WWII,after the Meiji Restoration,Japanese became very ambitious and the neighboring and weak-ass China was the perfect aim.Japan was a major bully to China around that time.China was so weak that even when Russia was fighting with Japan,they use China's land as battlefield.There were tons of conflicts between China and Japan during this era.
Then the Sino-Japanese war took place,PLENTY of Chinese people were brutally killed during the wartime.The fatalities of Chinese citizens were on par with those of the USSR's.
I think the major reason why Japan is still hated by almost every single country in Asia(except for Taiwan,that's another story.Taiwan is probably the only nation in East Asia that remains amicable with Japan.Unfortunately the friendship could only remain unofficial) is that they have never officially apologized for the crimes they committed during the war.The anti-Japanese sentiment is not something exclusive for Chinese,but for the whole continent.China's sentiment is more apparent is probably because the brain-washing of their governments that a little trigger could cause a tidal wave.

That being said,China is still highly influenced by Japanese culture.It's not like Chinese people hate Japanese so much that they'd assault Japanese tourists or something lol.
Funny it doesn't seem that other Asian countries hate Japan, if anything they hate China more, despite the war. Japanese culture is still very popular throughout Asia, Japan is still a major trading partner (although being eclipsed by China) among the young I don't get the sense there is much animosity towards Japan, or at the government level. It's mostly China, and older folks in places like Hong Kong, Malaysia and Korea that seem to harbour the most resentment.
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