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Old 05-07-2014, 03:05 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,228,213 times
Reputation: 2833

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
I think that concerns about being a citizen of the most powerful nation on earth are bigger concerns to people from the US, China, Russia, to a lesser extent the UK and India... basically, nations that are past, present, or emerging superpowers. To smaller countries that never really had a stake to it in the first place but have good economies and have made significant progress on their own, its less of a concern; I think the bigger concern is a loss of autonomy. Taiwan is already doing just fine in the global economy, and while a return to China certainly would not hurt its reach, again people will look at what their current situation is, what their future prospects are, what they could stand to lose, and weigh all that.

I think that the older generation, many of whom were either alive during the KMT's control of China or right after its ousting, are more likely to support a reunification with China, but on Taiwan's terms, which obviously run counter to the CCP's. The younger generation is, in my experience, less concerned with issues of reunification and more in line with ideas of total independence since they've only ever known Taiwan to be Taiwan. Many mainland Chinese don't understand why Taiwan doesn't want to simply rejoin China since it has grown so much so fast in the last two decades and is on an upward trajectory, but lack the outside perspective of the Taiwanese. The Taiwanese don't hardly see China as an enemy or adversary and are awarethat they are culturally and ethnically Chinese, they just have a different national identity.
One should make a distinction between Taiwanese pre 1949 and those that arrived after 1949. A lot of these old primarily Hoklo Taiwanese see the others as 'newcomers.' The former and their descendants are more likely to identify as Taiwanese, support independence. The Pan-green coalition strongholds are in the South and rural areas.
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:10 AM
 
1,011 posts, read 627,358 times
Reputation: 283
I don't think the issue of independance should be discussed from the perspective of Taiwanese only. Even if the majority of the population supports it, it's still illegitimate. Like Crimea, they want to break away from Ukraine, but why US and EU think their claim is not legitimate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
I think that concerns about being a citizen of the most powerful nation on earth are bigger concerns to people from the US, China, Russia, to a lesser extent the UK and India... basically, nations that are past, present, or emerging superpowers. To smaller countries that never really had a stake to it in the first place but have good economies and have made significant progress on their own, its less of a concern; I think the bigger concern is a loss of autonomy. Taiwan is already doing just fine in the global economy, and while a return to China certainly would not hurt its reach, again people will look at what their current situation is, what their future prospects are, what they could stand to lose, and weigh all that.

I think that the older generation, many of whom were either alive during the KMT's control of China or right after its ousting, are more likely to support a reunification with China, but on Taiwan's terms, which obviously run counter to the CCP's. The younger generation is, in my experience, less concerned with issues of reunification and more in line with ideas of total independence since they've only ever known Taiwan to be Taiwan. Many mainland Chinese don't understand why Taiwan doesn't want to simply rejoin China since it has grown so much so fast in the last two decades and is on an upward trajectory, but lack the outside perspective of the Taiwanese. The Taiwanese don't hardly see China as an enemy or adversary and are awarethat they are culturally and ethnically Chinese, they just have a different national identity that they don't want to give up.
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:11 AM
 
1,011 posts, read 627,358 times
Reputation: 283
Why did UK engage in a war with Argentina for the claim of a tiny island? did UK ask the residents on that island what they want?
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:12 AM
 
4,674 posts, read 3,607,316 times
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I agree. There is nothing that Taiwan can offer to China at this point that is valuable, except some sort of nationalistic pride (which is very short lived anyway). Taiwan's economy is wholly dependent on China, and so China can shut off the spigot anytime it wants. There is no need to keep hashing over whether Taiwan island belongs to China or not...it is a Chinese economic satellite, and it has no power to threaten Chinese interest.

China should focus instead on getting the Diaoyus back from Japan, and regaining as much of the South Sea as possible. Japan has a bloody debt to pay, and it is a direct threat to Chinese interest today because it is an American puppet. Japan killed millions of Chinese in the past, and the war criminal shrine is a direct insult to China's own war dead every single day, while Taiwan has never hurt the Chinese in anyway. Leave Taiwan alone and go after the real bad guys. So long as Taiwan remains the ROC, it should be left alone.

One of the greatest weakness of the Chinese civilization is that it always prefer to fight among its own cultural kins.
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:14 AM
 
1,011 posts, read 627,358 times
Reputation: 283
The issue of reunification is not about what benefits Taiwan can get in either case. But rather, it is a sovereign issue, depending on the relative geopolitical strengths of all the players involved.

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Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
Why did UK engage in a war with Argentina for the claim of a tiny island? did UK ask the residents on that island what they want?
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:14 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,228,213 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
I don't think the issue of independance should be discussed from the perspective of Taiwanese only. Even if the majority of the population supports it, it's still illegitimate. Like Crimea, they want to break away from Ukraine, but why US and EU think their claim is not legitimate?
The independence movement is growing in Taiwan. If it wasn't for China's threats I don't think the UN would have any problems recognising the Republic of Taiwan/Formosa.
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:15 AM
 
Location: singapore
1,526 posts, read 1,270,803 times
Reputation: 416
intense keyboard war.. Scary
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:15 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,228,213 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
I agree. There is nothing that Taiwan can offer to China at this point that is valuable, except some sort of nationalistic pride (which is very short lived anyway). Taiwan's economy is wholly dependent on China, and so China can shut off the spigot anytime it wants. There is no need to keep hashing over whether Taiwan island belongs to China or not...it is a Chinese economic satellite, and it has no power to threaten Chinese interest.

China should focus instead on getting the Diaoyus back from Japan, and regaining as much of the South Sea as possible. Japan has a bloody debt to pay, and it is a direct threat to Chinese interest today because it is an American puppet. Japan killed millions of Chinese in the past, and the war criminal shrine is a direct insult to China's own war dead every single day, while Taiwan has never hurt the Chinese in anyway. Leave Taiwan alone and go after the real bad guys. So long as Taiwan remains the ROC, it should be left alone.

One of the greatest weakness of the Chinese civilization is that it always prefer to fight among its own cultural kins.
How is Taiwan's economy totally dependent on China?
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:16 AM
 
1,011 posts, read 627,358 times
Reputation: 283
Actually, China is very content on the status quo. China now is focusing its domestic problems, such as the rising inequality, corruption and seperatists in Xinjiang. It is trying to forge a good relationship with the Taiwan government. It has approved the trade agreement with Taiwan, which was blocked by some student demonstrators in Taiwan

Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
I agree. There is nothing that Taiwan can offer to China at this point that is valuable, except some sort of nationalistic pride (which is very short lived anyway). Taiwan's economy is wholly dependent on China, and so China can shut off the spigot anytime it wants. There is no need to keep hashing over whether Taiwan island belongs to China or not...it is a Chinese economic satellite, and it has no power to threaten Chinese interest.

China should focus instead on getting the Diaoyus back from Japan, and regaining as much of the South Sea as possible. Japan has a bloody debt to pay, and it is a direct threat to Chinese interest today because it is an American puppet. Japan killed millions of Chinese in the past, and the war criminal shrine is a direct insult to China's own war dead every single day, while Taiwan has never hurt the Chinese in anyway. Leave Taiwan alone and go after the real bad guys. So long as Taiwan remains the ROC, it should be left alone.

One of the greatest weakness of the Chinese civilization is that it always prefer to fight among its own cultural kins.
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:17 AM
 
Location: singapore
1,526 posts, read 1,270,803 times
Reputation: 416
Has grow out of topic to the thread title of Japanese
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