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Old 12-05-2013, 07:26 AM
 
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The Textbook issue is WAYYYY to overblown, protests and riots spread because of ONE textbook, that has since only been used in .039% of Japanese Schools (all private schools), in part by extensive lobbying by the Japanese Teachers Union.

For the most part, the problem with Japan's historical education probably lies more with the students as they study for the "test". If WW2 is not going to be on their college entrance exams, even if their teachers teach them, they are more liable to just go "I don't give a **** about this" and forget.

Yasukuni is a bit of a sticky issue mainly because it has since morphed into this Right-Wing litmus test. While it is the only shrine left to honor ALL of Japan's 2.5million war dead but that meaning seems to have morphed as only LDP members from really conservative districts actually visit. The Imperial Household doesn't even visit it anymore.

Most Chinese however, ignore the countless non-redacted, official apologies made by former PMs and passed by the Diet. That their government waived reparations from Japan when offered and even still, billions of dollars of ODP aid is still provided by Japan since the 70s to their countries.
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Old 12-05-2013, 08:48 AM
 
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"That their government waived reparations from Japan when offered"...

Stupid moves made by Chiang Kaishek and Mao. I hope both are caned for eternity in their afterlife for their idiotic decisions. This does not erase the hatred toward Japan in the hearts of regular people...so what's your point? Both Chiang and Mao were dictators, and never elected by their people. On this issue, they cannot "forgive" for their people.

"and even still, billions of dollars of ODP aid is still provided by Japan since the 70s to their countries."...

Smart move by japan, who used these ODA low interest loans (not grants mind you) to "purchase" Japanese goods and technical knowhow to break into the Chinese market. It served Japan's economic interests just as much as it helped China. I think it all added up to roughly $18-25 billions, but historical estimation for the material destruction alone from the Japanese invasion of China came in at roughly $350 Billion. And that does not include the "price" of 20 million dead....

Sure who cares about textbooks! Except that children are the future of a nation, and preparing them poorly to live in a diverse world, and skewing their understanding of true history (whitewashing) will condemn them to commit the same mistakes of their ancestors. Very dangerous for Japan.
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Old 12-05-2013, 10:17 AM
 
392 posts, read 400,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
"That their government waived reparations from Japan when offered"...

Stupid moves made by Chiang Kaishek and Mao. I hope both are caned for eternity in their afterlife for their idiotic decisions. This does not erase the hatred toward Japan in the hearts of regular people...so what's your point? Both Chiang and Mao were dictators, and never elected by their people. On this issue, they cannot "forgive" for their people.

"and even still, billions of dollars of ODP aid is still provided by Japan since the 70s to their countries."...

Smart move by japan, who used these ODA low interest loans (not grants mind you) to "purchase" Japanese goods and technical knowhow to break into the Chinese market. It served Japan's economic interests just as much as it helped China. I think it all added up to roughly $18-25 billions, but historical estimation for the material destruction alone from the Japanese invasion of China came in at roughly $350 Billion. And that does not include the "price" of 20 million dead....

Sure who cares about textbooks! Except that children are the future of a nation, and preparing them poorly to live in a diverse world, and skewing their understanding of true history (whitewashing) will condemn them to commit the same mistakes of their ancestors. Very dangerous for Japan.
I brought up "waived" reparations (past the liquidated millions/billions of foreign assets and infrastructure redistributed to China and Korea by the Treaty of San Francisco) because it is a point that Chinese (at least in my family) bring up as evidence of Japan's lack of contrition.

With the exception of that textbook used in less that .5% of the schools in Japan, almost all Japanese texbooks since 1982, has to conform with the "Neighboring Country Clause" (近隣諸国条項): Textbooks ought to show understanding and seek international harmony in their treatment of modern and contemporary historical events involving neighboring Asian countries (近隣のアジア諸国との間の近現代の歴史的事象の扱いに国際理解と国際協調の見地から必要な配慮 がされてい ること).

Textbooks published since the 1980's mention that large numbers of Asian civilians were killed by Japan's invasions and the Nanking massacre is also mentioned. Teachers often bring additional supplemental materials.

(linky link to a middle school history textbook : Uses strong words like Nanking Massacre as opposed to incident and lists many other atrocities Since 1982, the Japanese education ministry has required textbooks to conform with the "Neighboring Country Clause" (近隣諸国条項): Textbooks ought to show understanding and seek international harmony in their treatment of modern and contemporary historical events involving neighboring Asian countries (近隣のアジア諸国との間の近現代の歴史的事象の扱いに国際理解と国際協調の見地から必要な配慮 がされてい ること).

Textbooks published since the 1980's mention that large numbers of Asian civilians were killed by Japan's invasions and the Nanking massacre is also mentioned. Teachers also use supplemental materials and for your reading pleasure, here is a link to a Junior High History Text (???????? , note the explicit use of the word Massacre for Nanking and the coercion for comfort women, hardly "whitewashing").

A Stanford University study of America, Japanese, Korean, and Chinese history textbooks found that Japanese textbooks were the least nationalistic (nippon.com/en/in-depth/a00703/).

Japanese nationalists face an "uphill battle" to spread their views. Opinion polls (hrca.org.ru/Legitimation-and-Stability-of-Political-Systems/politics-memory-and-historical-consciousness-in-japan.html) show the majority of Japanese do not share the views of deniers.

Of course, if you want to find people in Japan who totally deny history or argue that Japan was righteous in ww2, you can. Unlike Germany, Japan does not have laws restricting freedom of speech about history.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:05 AM
 
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"Japan does not have laws restricting freedom of speech about history."...

Yes, suddenly, the Japanese are the greatest defenders of free speech...to the point of allowing right-wing nut-jobs to blast racist hatred in areas inhabited by ethnic Koreans. Right! By the way, I still have not found a German Lutheran church celebrating the spiritual bravery of Hitler and his High Command anywhere in Germany....
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Old 12-05-2013, 04:49 PM
 
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The history textbook controversy was really way blown out of proportion. Unlike China, Japan is a full-fledged democracy that promotes human rights. The Japanese government gives private companies the autonomy to decide how they want to publish the textbooks. So different companies publish different textbooks that contain varying degrees of Japanese wartime activities.

In contrast, Chinese history textbooks are pretty much standardized such that there can only be one single truth - that the Japanese did commit wartime atrocities like the Rape of Nanking and Unit 731.

There is also a difference in the way Japanese and Chinese people analyze history. Chinese people are quick to make judgements on history based on their own experiences without much investigation and debate. But, the Japanese believes in the significance of conducting investigations, research and debate before making a historical conclusion.

For instance, a Chinese photo found in the exhibits of the Rape of Nanking showed only the victims. In reality, the victims were communist captives who were shot by KMT soldiers, not Japanese troops. This evidence was found in a complete photo of both victims and soldiers and the picture was taken way before Nanking.

The Japanese did not outright deny their role in Nanking. But without carefully analyzing each piece of evidence, how can we immediately condemn the Japanese for something that they may not have commit?
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:39 PM
 
4,692 posts, read 3,616,660 times
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"For instance, a Chinese photo found in the exhibits of the Rape of Nanking showed only the victims. In reality, the victims were communist captives who were shot by KMT soldiers, not Japanese troops. This evidence was found in a complete photo of both victims and soldiers and the picture was taken way before Nanking."....


You should read Iris Chang's book about Nanking. She published it outside of China, and her research was independent. But of course, you don't sound like you care too much about the truth about Nanking in any case.
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Old 12-05-2013, 08:15 PM
 
Location: In the heights
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I think there was a war or something
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Old 12-05-2013, 08:44 PM
 
392 posts, read 400,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
"For instance, a Chinese photo found in the exhibits of the Rape of Nanking showed only the victims. In reality, the victims were communist captives who were shot by KMT soldiers, not Japanese troops. This evidence was found in a complete photo of both victims and soldiers and the picture was taken way before Nanking."....


You should read Iris Chang's book about Nanking. She published it outside of China, and her research was independent. But of course, you don't sound like you care too much about the truth about Nanking in any case.
While Iris Chang's book raised awareness about the issue which is great, please don't promote the book as "good history". Her work sensationalized an event that need no more embellishment. Her signature book on the Nanking Massacre was filled with inaccuracies (that could have been easily fact checked if she had used primary sources or relied on a multiple sources etc.), rhetoric, and pseudo-scientific "explanations" on why the Japanese were that way in WW2. An unfortunate result of the various inaccuracies in her book also allows ultra-right wing deniers pick apart the book and use it to discredit/deny the whole massacre.

The Horror - David M. Kennedy - The Atlantic

Book Review: The Rape of Nanking by Iris Chang

Review of The Rape of Nanking: The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II


A better text would be "Knights of Bushido" written by Lord Russell of Liverpool, British Deputy Judge Advocate General and who was one of the chief legal advisors for the International War Crimes tribunals. He has also written extensively on Nazi War crimes.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Knights-Bu...ese+War+crimes

If you want Japanese authors, The Making of the "Rape of Nanking": History and Memory in Japan, China, and the United States by Takashi Yoshida is on my reading list.

The Nanjing Massacre: A Japanese Journalist Confronts Japan's National Shame is a classic. Honda Katsuichi, the author, previous had exposed some stories from Vietnam of American massacres of civilians, which were translated to English and got some attention in the US where such stories reports were basically unheard of, and then travelled to Nanjing and reported on very frank, graphic stories of the survivors he found there. These people wrote these books prior to the Neigboring Countries clause during the 70s and as such have lived under threat of injury or death by the hands of Uyoku Dantai so by no means are these people biased.

Last edited by ByronicCoward; 12-05-2013 at 08:55 PM..
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Old 12-05-2013, 08:48 PM
 
Location: On the road
2,669 posts, read 1,981,092 times
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The Chinese and Japanese hated each other back when Marco Polo ventured eastward with his father and uncle.

Nothing has much changed.
Nanking was just one the latest episodes.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,252,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarsMac View Post
The Chinese and Japanese hated each other back when Marco Polo ventured eastward with his father and uncle.

Nothing has much changed.
Nanking was just one the latest episodes.
Based on what? I don't think they thought much of each other. Japan also adopted a lot of Chinese culture and did sort of look up to them though (although that doesn't mean they were friendly with them).
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