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Old 04-30-2014, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,269,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Well, what should the threshold be, then? Is there some statute of limitations after which invasions of another country can't be addressed? When Iraq invaded its neighbor, the US acted swiftly. (Too bad Tibet is landlocked and doesn't have oil or something the US needs.) What about Indonesia's invasion of East Timor? That took years to resolve in favor of East Timor. Does the international community give up on Tibet just because it's been 50 years since China invaded? The problem is that no one wants to take on China, and China knows that. China knows it's holding all the cards.

Also, China's using Tibet now to wrestle land from India based on historic claims. Based on Tibet's borders during the height of the Tibetan empire. They're building a railroad to parallel the Indian border from Lhasa to the southeast, for easy mobilization of troops. They've laid claim to Arunachal Pradesh. They're not giving up Tibet, no way, no how.
Well there are also historical connections going back even further...but the point is, even if hypothetically Tibet were to achieve independence, in what form would it take? Would you support a return to a religious theocracy led by the lamas? Would the majority of Tibetans support this? Would it end up yet another military controlled dictatorship?

 
Old 04-30-2014, 06:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Well there are also historical connections going back even further...but the point is, even if hypothetically Tibet were to achieve independence, in what form would it take? Would you support a return to a religious theocracy led by the lamas? Would the majority of Tibetans support this? Would it end up yet another military controlled dictatorship?


You know the problem is any country can use old maps and historical connections to claim land that doesn't belong to them in the present. Take India for example. It could claim the land under the Emperor Ashoka which spread from Burma to Afghanistan. Sounds ridiculous right? China is behaving like a bully. Its neighbors realize that and are begging for the US to step in and keep them in check. As far as Tibet is concerned, time have changed. Even the Dalai Lama has reconsidered independence but only because China will never negotiate. Tibet is the source of many rivers and lakes. With water becoming scare and a global commodity in the future, not to mention the reason for future conflicts.....China will never let it go willingly.


If the Tibetans gain Independence, let them decide their own faith. They should have the freedom to do so. Tibetans cross in to India every year to get away. Whenever there are riots, mass demonstrations, monks immolating themselves, the news is heavily censured and foreigners are banned from entering.
 
Old 04-30-2014, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,269,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistertee View Post
You know the problem is any country can use old maps and historical connections to claim land that doesn't belong to them in the present. Take India for example. It could claim the land under the Emperor Ashoka which spread from Burma to Afghanistan. Sounds ridiculous right? China is behaving like a bully. Its neighbors realize that and are begging for the US to step in and keep them in check. As far as Tibet is concerned, time have changed. Even the Dalai Lama has reconsidered independence but only because China will never negotiate. Tibet is the source of many rivers and lakes. With water becoming scare and a global commodity in the future, not to mention the reason for future conflicts.....China will never let it go willingly.


If the Tibetans gain Independence, let them decide their own faith. They should have the freedom to do so. Tibetans cross in to India every year to get away. Whenever there are riots, mass demonstrations, monks immolating themselves, the news is heavily censured and foreigners are banned from entering.
Well most nations were the result of conquests etc anyway...The Dalai Lama doesn't speak for all Tibetans, have there even been any polls on how many want to return to the Lama-ruled theocracy? There are as many tales of Tibetans who remember those days with horror.

If allowed independence, who's to say wealthy monks/lamas won't merely reestablish some dictatorship? You think poor Tibetan peasants will decide, really?
 
Old 04-30-2014, 06:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Well most nations were the result of conquests etc anyway...The Dalai Lama doesn't speak for all Tibetans, have there even been any polls on how many want to return to the Lama-ruled theocracy? There are as many tales of Tibetans who remember those days with horror.

If allowed independence, who's to say wealthy monks/lamas won't merely reestablish some dictatorship? You think poor Tibetan peasants will decide, really?


How many Tibetans alive today lived under the lama ruled theocracy? Who are we to decide? It's their choice. Judging by how many live outside of Tibet exposed to the world and other cultural values plus their connection to their families/friends in Tibet, I don't see what you predict happening. Really.


Ever question why the Chinese govt gets involved in the affair of choosing the Dalai Lama?
 
Old 04-30-2014, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,269,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistertee View Post
How many Tibetans alive today lived under the lama ruled theocracy? Who are we to decide? It's their choice. Judging by how many live outside of Tibet exposed to the world and other cultural values plus their connection to their families/friends in Tibet, I don't see what you predict happening. Really.


Ever question why the Chinese govt gets involved in the affair of choosing the Dalai Lama?
Sure, I admit the Chinese are guilty of many abuses, but I don't think 'independence' is always the answer...it's not going to happen without a fight anyway. Others should try to work with the Chinese, perhaps pressure them to respect the Tibetans more.
 
Old 05-01-2014, 09:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Sure, I admit the Chinese are guilty of many abuses, but I don't think 'independence' is always the answer...it's not going to happen without a fight anyway. Others should try to work with the Chinese, perhaps pressure them to respect the Tibetans more.


Yea Independence won't happen without a fight and there is no support from the world for it. Even the Dalai Lama gave up on the idea. Independence may not bring them development, a great economy, power, etc. But it gives ppl a sense of pride. Thats's exatly what the Tibetans yearn for
 
Old 05-01-2014, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,269,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistertee View Post
Yea Independence won't happen without a fight and there is no support from the world for it. Even the Dalai Lama gave up on the idea. Independence may not bring them development, a great economy, power, etc. But it gives ppl a sense of pride. Thats's exatly what the Tibetans yearn for
What good is a sense of pride when your people can barely feed themselves or their families? When they are milked dry by the people who rule over them?
 
Old 05-02-2014, 07:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
What good is a sense of pride when your people can barely feed themselves or their families? When they are milked dry by the people who rule over them?


I'll give you an example of the British Raj. Many ppl in India died as result of man made famine, regulations to grow cash crops over food crops, diverting food to the UK during World wars, etc. Even then, many ppl in Europe thought how it was better for India to remain a colony! The very same ppl rose up and challenged that notion. They rather eat dirt then live under those conditions by a foreign ppl. You assume China is doing a great job because they feed them and build some roads. They are not doing it for their benefit but the benefit of CHina only. Do you know he sad state of affairs in terms of development in Tibet prior to this decade? CHina only recently started pumping massive money into the area.
 
Old 05-02-2014, 07:20 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,281,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistertee View Post
Yea Independence won't happen without a fight and there is no support from the world for it. Even the Dalai Lama gave up on the idea. Independence may not bring them development, a great economy, power, etc. But it gives ppl a sense of pride. Thats's exatly what the Tibetans yearn for
yeah, gain indepedence and revert to the slavery state under Dalai Lama, I am sure there is a lot of pride in that kind of progress.

You are day dreaming if you think by separating from China Tibet will be in any means "free". With 3 million people, many of which might flee after "indepdence", it will be just one of those barking dogs of the US of A (like many small states around China right now).
 
Old 05-02-2014, 09:35 AM
 
1,434 posts, read 2,119,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
yeah, gain indepedence and revert to the slavery state under Dalai Lama, I am sure there is a lot of pride in that kind of progress.

You are day dreaming if you think by separating from China Tibet will be in any means "free". With 3 million people, many of which might flee after "indepdence", it will be just one of those barking dogs of the US of A (like many small states around China right now).


You sound like a Chinese internet warrior. You assume a lot don't you?
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