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Old 05-04-2014, 07:40 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,918 posts, read 70,720,442 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Well Burma was known for it's religiosity, and look what happened here. Some may envisage another Bhutan, but Bhutan is a tiny country and the two countries are radically different. Tibet didn't have the same kind of benevolent monarchy Bhutan does. Sure, the Potala palace in Lhasa is impressive to look at, but like many feudal systems around the world it was often squeezed from the peasantry. We're talking about a country which, like China, has no experience with any modern-style government or democracy. If they gain independence there will be growing pains...

I just think it's not as simple as 'just give them officially independence and everything will be rosy.' One has to also be more practical.
The King of Bhutan stepped down around a decade ago. (To much protest from the citizenry.) It's a democratic country now. And yes, it's very different. It's more into transparency, for one thing.

 
Old 05-04-2014, 07:43 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,918 posts, read 70,720,442 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Try Mongols?/???

Are you kidding? Go look at an atlas, buddy before you embarrass yourself in public. There are more mongols in China than in Mongolia itself. Outer Mongolia is a basket-case, and their cousins living in China are far more numerous, prosperous and are technically Chinese.
Down, girl. He meant, historically the Mongols defeated China. More than once. So did the Manchus, twice. (The first time they called themselves Jurchens.)
 
Old 05-04-2014, 08:17 PM
 
Location: DFW
6,800 posts, read 11,786,692 times
Reputation: 5154
I hope never.
 
Old 05-04-2014, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,782 posts, read 13,369,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
and where are the powerful Mongolians now? And the Manchurians who used to run the show? they get to stay for 250 years and then history always turns on a new page.
But one way or the other, China has been defeated before. That their culture has endured is immaterial to this point. I expect that most likely China will continue to grow in power and there's a decent likelihood that in our lifetimes, it will rival the US on multiple different fronts where it doesn't already. But even if that ends up being the case, it's likely that at some point, their winning streak will end. Their culture will still endure, but they will likely at some point be overtaken by another nation. This has been the case of nations and empires since the beginning of time... no one is exempt from it.
 
Old 05-04-2014, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,266,372 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
But one way or the other, China has been defeated before. That their culture has endured is immaterial to this point. I expect that most likely China will continue to grow in power and there's a decent likelihood that in our lifetimes, it will rival the US on multiple different fronts where it doesn't already. But even if that ends up being the case, it's likely that at some point, their winning streak will end. Their culture will still endure, but they will likely at some point be overtaken by another nation. This has been the case of nations and empires since the beginning of time... no one is exempt from it.
Well yeah, China has already been overtaken before, now is it's time to peak...
 
Old 05-05-2014, 01:30 AM
 
4,706 posts, read 3,622,521 times
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The more interesting question is when the West will implode. Will the US default and go the way of many empires before it? Lots of people ponder these questions, and it is not just about China.
 
Old 05-05-2014, 03:04 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,782 posts, read 13,369,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
The more interesting question is when the West will implode. Will the US default and go the way of many empires before it? Lots of people ponder these questions, and it is not just about China.
Of course not - I'm an American and I ask the same thing. I question whether there will be a literal "implosion" or simply an evening-out, which of course would be interpreted as an implosion by many, both Westerners and outside observers. The world, especially the West, has come to interpret anything other than steady growth as failure. The US made a huge mistake in shipping its manufacturing and industry overseas, and figuring it could rely on a service- based economy. If it had taken better care of its middle- and working-class backbone instead of fleecing them and kicking them to the curb, it could have likely maintained its international hegemony for some time longer.
 
Old 05-05-2014, 05:59 AM
 
Location: Taipei
6,776 posts, read 5,132,830 times
Reputation: 4566
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Yes the thing about China is the conquerors become the 'conquered.' The Mongols and Manchus might have 'conquered' China, and ruled them, but they got swallowed up in the huge Chinese cultural behemoth and their own cultures sort of disappeared into it. Most Mongols live in China now, and the Manchu ethnicity as a meaningful thing is now pretty much dead, with only a few older people speaking Manchu or keeping the traditions.
Mongols and Manchus have conquered China and ruled the land,but there are differences between the two.

Mongols didn't rule the Hans very effectively,they might had extensive and powerful troops,but that was about it.They were not very intelligent,politically.So their ruling was very short,less than 90 years iirc.
Manchus,however,embraced and appreciated the rich culture of Hans.When they were at their strongest(from Kangxi to Qianlong) the culture of Manchu weren't really swallowed,but after their power went downhill,the foreign invasions started,then the revolution took place.They ruled China much more successfully,for more than 200 years.

And the Chinese culture was greatly damaged during the Cultural Revolution started by the moronic Mao decades ago.China nowadays hardly maintains the virtues and values of the ancient China.There still have many to offer,such as literature or arts or architecture,but many of those stuffs were gone during that dark age.Look at the ugly simplified characters they are using right now,that's one bloody proof.

Back to topic I don't think Tibet can be independent anytime soon.The controls of CCP are everywhere and extremely delicate.The only way out is for CCP to collapse from inside out,then the whole China would break into many smaller pieces.By then,XinJiang,Tibet,Hong Kong would all want to gain independence.

But that's just pure day dreaming.
 
Old 05-05-2014, 07:20 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,278,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Well yeah, China has already been overtaken before, now is it's time to peak...
China peaked during the 11th century already, when it had most of the world's richest cities and a share of world GDP of almost 60%.

In relative terms, China will never be as powerful as it used to be during the Tang Dynasty. It is a civilisation that matured and peaked very very early.
 
Old 05-05-2014, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Taipei
6,776 posts, read 5,132,830 times
Reputation: 4566
^I wouldn't call either Tang or Song Dynasty peaks tbh.That was million years ago,everything has changed.There were basically no international relations whatsoever.
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