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Old 01-01-2014, 04:30 PM
 
Location: World
3,657 posts, read 3,519,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownThor View Post
Well before 1947 there may never have been 'Pakistanis', but there were never any 'Indians' before 1747(when the British colonized South Asia), India was a roman word used by Europeans to refer to South Asia, but before they came the people of South Asia have always seen themselves as a small continent of a diverse group of people, more diverse than Europe.
1747 Where did you get that year from? Battle of Plassey was in 1757 between East India Company and Nawab of Bengal Siraj-ud-daulah at Plassey, Bengal. If India was not there, where did the word East India Company come from???? What was Vasco-da-Gama looking for in 1498? Have you ever heard of travels and scriptures from noted scholars and travellers like Al-Biruni or Ibn-Batuta?
Names of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 01-01-2014, 04:34 PM
 
Location: East coast
613 posts, read 892,436 times
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I think the problem is that people pick one region of Asia (East Asia) and claim it represents the "Asian" look. Why privilege that as the archetype and not say South Asia or West Asia and call that the archetype? Sure, West Asians are less of the population than those further East, but South Asia is as populous as East Asia.

So all in all the West/South Asian look makes up just as much of the continent as the East/Southeast one.

Plus even if you go by the old fashioned ideas of the "Mongolian" look versus the "Caucasian" (which is really old and archaic from centuries past) to judge, I could just as easily claim that it is a look of the Native Americans or New World and represents them as much as it does for "Asians", seeing as how almost all of the New World pre-Columbus had that appearance, while only part of Asia (the eastern part) had that look, but not the western part.
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Old 01-01-2014, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,238,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cindersslipper View Post
FWIW those in the UK use "Asian" to describe those originally from India and Pakistan, whereas down in Australia "Asian" means strictly those of Asiatic appearance such as Chinese Japanese and further down the region such as Filipino and Malaysian.

We would never describe an Indian person as Asian.

Technically Australia is part of Asia too.
Where'd you hear that? By no measure is Australia technically part of Asia. It's it's own continent in every sense of the word. Europe is more a part of Asia (Eurasia) than Australia is.
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:44 PM
Status: "Stand with Hong Kong" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, Orange County CA
9,809 posts, read 7,704,067 times
Reputation: 7819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawaii4evr View Post
Well it depends on what country you're in. The USA seems to think of East Asians (Japanese, Indonesian, Mongolian, Chinese, Korean, etc) when they hear someone say 'Asian'. Britain thinks of South Asians (Pakistanis, Indians, Sri Lankans, Bangladeshis, Nepalese, etc) when they hear the term 'Asian'. Personally I distinguish. If I'm referring to someone Armenian (Cher, Kardashians), Persian (Christiane Amanpour) or Arab (King Hussein), I'd refer to them as West Asian if their ethnicity was brought up. If I'm referring to someone like Gong Li or Hirohito, I'd describe them as East Asian. If I'm thinking of someone from India or Pakistan, I'd say they were South Asian. If I'm referring to the ethnic groups of Siberian Russia, I'd say they were North Asian. And so on and so forth.
Spot on. One note: Armenians, even ones from Syria, Iran and other places from their diasporo, still, oddly, consider themselves European. Perhaps they think this because Armenia (sitting, as it once did in East Turkey/Ottoman Empire, or now, as a former soviet republic in the Caucuses) is or was in "Europe". Perhaps they see themselves as cultural Europeans who lived, often for generations, in Asia. Ok, I never said this would be cut and dry.
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:59 PM
Status: "Stand with Hong Kong" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, Orange County CA
9,809 posts, read 7,704,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownThor View Post
I don't understand why Indians have a stereotype of being studios, but Pakistanis don't, I mean Pakistani-Americans are really well assimilated and have high rates of academic attainment like other Asians and about 5% of all doctors in America are of Pakistani origin but despite our success as a community we still get subjected to the negative stereotypes of middle easterners but not the positive ones of Orientals.
I suspect that Pakistanis in the United States are largely a successful lot, similar to Indians. I have seen many doctors and persons in specialty occupations here who are Pakistani. I doubt Americans see them very differently from other South Asians.

This similar level of attainment between Indians and Pakistanis, however, is not the case in the UK and we all know this. Moreover, Pakistanis here have integrated better and, thankfully, not acted like many in the UK. I will stop there.
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,779 posts, read 13,353,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC View Post
I suspect that Pakistanis in the United States are largely a successful lot, similar to Indians. I have seen many doctors and persons in specialty occupations here who are Pakistani. I doubt Americans see them very differently from other South Asians.

This similar level of attainment between Indians and Pakistanis, however, is not the case in the UK and we all know this. Moreover, Pakistanis here have integrated better and, thankfully, not acted like many in the UK. I will stop there.
My ex wife was half North Indian Muslim and half Pakistani; we're still cool, it just didn't work out, due in part to cultural differences that we didn't really foresee at the time we got married. I'm also still friends with her siblings, parents, and many of her cousins.

I never once heard any of them refer to themselves as "Asian" - here in the 'States, "Asian" generally means East/Southeast Asian (China, Japan, Vietnam, Korea, Thailand, etc), colloquially if not literally. The only times that I've ever heard someone of East Asian descent refer to Pakistanis or Indians as "Asian," it's usually because they're a college-aged Anthro/Social studies major who just has an axe to grind with white people.

Her family never referred to themselves as "Middle Eastern," because although they're Muslims, they have a distinct culture from Middle Eastern Muslim nations - on the contrary, much of her family referred to Arabs in general as "Palestinians" and they had a pretty low opinion of them. They think of themselves as "Pakistani," and will also talk at length about how Pakistan and India are the same country, it's just that the English messed everything up.

I think that the main reason you'll find different average levels of attainment in the US versus the UK when it comes to Pakistani immigrants is because the UK is quite generous with people who emigrate legally as refugees or economically-disadvantaged peoples, while the US government doesn't even take care of its own poor people let alone those from another country. I remember my ex talking about her family who had emigrated to the UK and lived in England: they lived in public housing and didn't pay a dime, they got food subsidies, they had their healthcare taken care of, and they made extra, under-the-table money as mechanics, caregivers, maids, unregistered cabbies/limo drivers, etc for the last decade... why bother getting off the dole when there's no other way you'd be able to live in London anyways? As far as radicalism, etc. goes, well, the US has a data dragnet that catches everyone in the country, and yes: Muslims from overseas are scrutinized very, very heavily versus other people. If you're Pakistani and have any militant or radical beliefs here, the government knows it, and they've tapped your phone, they read your email, and they know what you're doing with your bank account. The UK is much more permissible than the US when it comes to civil liberties, which for better or worse makes it easier to plot and plan without getting an unexpected visit in the middle of the night by a team of Feds with submachine guns.

Anyways, as far as the US goes, her brother moved here and lived with ten other Muslim immigrants in a 2-bedroom apartment in San Francisco until he saved enough money to buy out the shop he worked in after the owner decided to retire, and now owns mini-marts and gas stations in the Bay Area. He had no choice but to do something like this, because otherwise he would have continued to live in cramped and squalid conditions that weren't even as good as what he had in Pakistan, just without the threat of death due to their status as a minority Muslim sect. My ex went to school and became an LVN, then an RN, because otherwise she'd be stuck living with family forever.

All told, my ex is an RN, her brother pulls in about $250k/year, she has family in Texas who pull in over a million a year and their kids are all going to school to be doctors. Hell, my doctor and dentist back here in MA are Pakistani. Even though there's a gap in their perception as Asians here in the 'States, they certainly do have similar levels of attainment to other Asians here, and in general seem to have about the same level of integration and a sense of devotion to the US, even if they're critical of some of the social problems here.
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Old 01-08-2014, 03:07 AM
 
Location: S
38 posts, read 69,966 times
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OK, my answer is nope.
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Old 01-08-2014, 07:28 AM
 
2,646 posts, read 4,065,097 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cindersslipper View Post
FWIW those in the UK use "Asian" to describe those originally from India and Pakistan, whereas down in Australia "Asian" means strictly those of Asiatic appearance such as Chinese Japanese and further down the region such as Filipino and Malaysian.

We would never describe an Indian person as Asian.

Technically Australia is part of Asia too.
Australians know Indians are Asian. Australia is not a part of Asia it is a continent in itself and part of Oceania.
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Old 01-08-2014, 01:48 PM
 
3,644 posts, read 9,000,180 times
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I have one class with lots of Pakistani and Arab students who are only in the US for college. They all consider themselves Asian and it causes confusion sometimes because they professor will talk about "Asians" (referring to East Asians) and some of their cultural aspects, and the Pakistani and Arab students are just confused because those things don't apply to them. They have ever right to call themselves Asian because they are on the continent of Asia too. That's why "Asian" is pretty much useless. Even "oriental" (referring to East Asians) was better because "oriental" means "East"
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Old 01-08-2014, 02:10 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, California
1,953 posts, read 5,204,661 times
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technically they are on the asian continent but racially they are not really asians

definitely not of the mongol race of asians

so I guess it's best to ask a Pakistani what they prefer to be known as?
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