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Old 12-23-2013, 08:20 AM
 
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I'm Pakistani descent, and I'm asking this question out of curiosity, I know that Pakistan is geographically entirely in Asia, but a lot of times when I talk to "Asian people"(Chinese,Korean types) and I tell them i'm Asian too, they tell me that Pakis aren't really Asian.

When I talk to American people, they usually think Pakistan's in the middle east probably because we're mostly Muslim and because of the war on terror, we were put into the "Greater Middle East", but I don't really see myself as Middle eastern, but then Orientals don't see us as Asian either(the ones I know), so I don't know what exactly are we, I mean when I fill out a US census form I tick "Asian" but I'm not considered Asian by "Asians" in general, so even though I'm not eligible for Affirmative Action, I don't get the positive stereotypes that other Asians get, and I usually get the negative stereotypes middle eastern people get.

So do East Asians consider us Asian, or do you see us as belonging to another make-belief region?
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Old 12-23-2013, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Hmmm, 'Asian' is a term with many definitions. Technically Asians include anyone in the Asian continent, which is more a political entity than anything else. Anyone from Turkey, to Lebanon, to Kazakhstan, to Sri Lanka to Sulawesi and up to Hokkaido is considered Asian. Asian Russia is sort of a grey area, but most seem to be considered European, at least white Russians.

I think in recent years, largely thanks to America I would say, Asians have been more narrowly defined as East Asians, those from East and Southeast Asia, or the 'Far East.' In some instances, India is often included in this region but not the Middle East. In the UK of course South Asians are called Asians. Personally I see Indians as Asians, as 'Asian' is such a broad category. Many East Asians have probably imbibed the American, Australian, Canadian definition of Asian as Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai, Indonesian.etc.

In many places Indians have a reputation for being studious, hard working and with conservative parents. The US doesn't have the same large Pakistani communities as the UK. Maybe the fact Pakistanis are mostly Muslim does not help.

Last edited by The Postman; 12-23-2013 at 08:51 AM..
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Old 12-23-2013, 08:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Hmmm, 'Asian' is a term with many definitions. Technically Asians include anyone in the Asian continent, which is more a political entity than anything else. Anyone from Turkey, to Lebanon, to Kazakhstan, to Sri Lanka to Sulawesi and up to Hokkaido is considered Asian. Asian Europe is sort of a grey area, but most seem to be considered European, at least white Russians.

I think in recent years, largely thanks to America I would say, Asians have been more narrowly defined as East Asians, those from East and Southeast Asia, or the 'Far East.' In some instances, India is often included in this region but not the Middle East. In the UK of course South Asians are called Asians. Personally I see Indians as Asians, as 'Asian' is such a broad category. Many East Asians have probably imbibed the American, Australian, Canadian definition of Asian as Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai, Indonesian.etc.

In many places Indians have a reputation for being studious, hard working and with conservative parents. The US doesn't have the same large Pakistani communities as the UK. Maybe the fact Pakistanis are mostly Muslim does not help.
That makes a lot of sense, the American media has made the American people and other Asians believe that the only "true Asian" is the one that "looks" East Asian.

Quote:
In many places Indians have a reputation for being studious, hard working and with conservative parents. The US doesn't have the same large Pakistani communities as the UK. Maybe the fact Pakistanis are mostly Muslim does not help
There is a large Pakistani community in America(between 300,000-700,000) but isn't as big as the one in Britain and the Pakistani american community is spread out through America, so there aren't any "Little Pakistan's" in America, whereas in England, Pakistanis tend to congregate in some cities.

I don't understand why Indians have a stereotype of being studios, but Pakistanis don't, I mean Pakistani-Americans are really well assimilated and have high rates of academic attainment like other Asians and about 5% of all doctors in America are of Pakistani origin but despite our success as a community we still get subjected to the negative stereotypes of middle easterners but not the positive ones of Orientals.
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Old 12-23-2013, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Originally Posted by BrownThor View Post
That makes a lot of sense, the American media has made the American people and other Asians believe that the only "true Asian" is the one that "looks" East Asian.



There is a large Pakistani community in America(between 300,000-700,000) but isn't as big as the one in Britain and the Pakistani american community is spread out through America, so there aren't any "Little Pakistan's" in America, whereas in England, Pakistanis tend to congregate in some cities.

I don't understand why Indians have a stereotype of being studios, but Pakistanis don't, I mean Pakistani-Americans are really well assimilated and have high rates of academic attainment like other Asians and about 5% of all doctors in America are of Pakistani origin but despite our success as a community we still get subjected to the negative stereotypes of middle easterners but not the positive ones of Orientals.
I'm surprised most Americans would make a distinction between Indians and Pakistanis. I would think they would think you were probably Indian unless you told them otherwise. Don't Pakistanis perform as well as Indians academically in the US?
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
I'm surprised most Americans would make a distinction between Indians and Pakistanis. I would think they would think you were probably Indian unless you told them otherwise. Don't Pakistanis perform as well as Indians academically in the US?
True, but it really depends on appearance, not all Pakistanis resemble Indians, and where my family is originally from we have a distinct look, also most of the Indians I see in America are from South India so they look distinctly different and their culture is quite different, I live Texas and I've had Hispanics walk up to me and speak in Spanish assuming I was Hispanic(even though I don't think I look remotely Hispanic) and I've also had some Arab friends that thought I was arab because of my arabic name and racially ambiguous appearance, I've rarely been mistaken as Indian, and I every time I am it's usually an Indian.

Pakistanis do perform as well as Indians academically, like I said before Pakistani-Americans have high rates of academic attainment, graduating college is expected from every Pakistani kid and most Pakistanis choose to go to into the STEM sector.
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownThor View Post
True, but it really depends on appearance, not all Pakistanis resemble Indians, and where my family is originally from we have a distinct look, also most of the Indians I see in America are from South India so they look distinctly different and their culture is quite different, I live Texas and I've had Hispanics walk up to me and speak in Spanish assuming I was Hispanic(even though I don't think I look remotely Hispanic) and I've also had some Arab friends that thought I was arab because of my arabic name and racially ambiguous appearance, I've rarely been mistaken as Indian, and I every time I am it's usually an Indian.

Pakistanis do perform as well as Indians academically, like I said before Pakistani-Americans have high rates of academic attainment, graduating college is expected from every Pakistani kid and most Pakistanis choose to go to into the STEM sector.
Then why aren't Pakistanis seen as studious if they perform well?

I thought Indians in the US were from all over. In the UK it seems more are from the north, if anything. In SEA, specifically Malaysia and Singapore really, South Indians dominate but there are sizeable Hindi, Punjabi inc Sikh, Gujarati, Bengali, and even Kashmiri groups in addition to the dominant Tamils and other South Indians.
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Then why aren't Pakistanis seen as studious if they perform well?

I thought Indians in the US were from all over. In the UK it seems more are from the north, if anything. In SEA, specifically Malaysia and Singapore really, South Indians dominate but there are sizeable Hindi, Punjabi inc Sikh, Gujarati, Bengali, and even Kashmiri groups in addition to the dominant Tamils and other South Indians.
Well I think it's mainly because we're Muslim so we're grouped with other Muslims, and also because the Pakistani community here isn't as big as the Indian community or other Asian communities that number over a million, so we don't get as much attention as the other groups.

The vast majority of Indians I know in America are South Indian,Gujarati,Bengali and a few Punjabi Sikhs, I only know of one Kashmiri Muslim family and they don't like to consider themselves Indian though.

If you watch the Scripps spelling bee contest every year you would notice that the majority of winners happen to be Indian(South Indian to be specific).

I've only met a few Indians here that can speak Hindi/Urdu, most of them either speak their regional languages or English.
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Originally Posted by BrownThor View Post
Well I think it's mainly because we're Muslim so we're grouped with other Muslims, and also because the Pakistani community here isn't as big as the Indian community or other Asian communities that number over a million, so we don't get as much attention as the other groups.

The vast majority of Indians I know in America are South Indian,Gujarati,Bengali and a few Punjabi Sikhs, I only know of one Kashmiri Muslim family and they don't like to consider themselves Indian though.

If you watch the Scripps spelling bee contest every year you would notice that the majority of winners happen to be Indian(South Indian to be specific).

I've only met a few Indians here that can speak Hindi/Urdu, most of them either speak their regional languages or English.
In the UK it seems the Pakistani-Bengalis are sort of lumped in with Muslim Indians, with Hindu Indians being a bit more distinct. I always thought most Muslim immigrants did well academically.

Gujarat and Bengal are of course considered more northern, but yeah, it seems Indians in Australia are more of a mix. There are quite a few Singaporean/Malaysian South Asians.
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:07 AM
 
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Chinese people do not really use the word "Asian" (亚洲人) as much as people in the US or in the west.
When it is used, it means people from all Asia. They do not consider the term particularly associated with the "yellow race".
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Chinese people do not really use the word "Asian" (亚洲人) as much as people in the US or in the west.
When it is used, it means people from all Asia. They do not consider the term particularly associated with the "yellow race".
The 'yellow race'? How do Chinese view other Asians in terms of us and them? Are there any that they consider say, cultural cousins? I know a lot don't like the Japanese, but do they feel any more kinship with the Japanese than say Indonesians, let alone Indians? How do Chinese tend to view other Asians in general traditionally and now?
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