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Old 08-25-2014, 07:15 AM
 
Location: In the heights
22,142 posts, read 23,662,647 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
And you can also tell the accent of Texas and California apart within 5 seconds as well.

China may have some variation, but it is not really a surprise considering the size of China. If you joined US, and Europe into one country it would have a lot of variation.
Beijing and Tianjin are really close together though. Do you hear much of a difference in accent between Austin and San Antonio?

Did you know the distance between Texas and California can span regions with three or four "dialects" where people from those regions would be unable to verbally communicate in their native tongues?

 
Old 08-25-2014, 08:05 AM
 
3,123 posts, read 2,703,036 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Beijing and Tianjin are really close together though. Do you hear much of a difference in accent between Austin and San Antonio?

Did you know the distance between Texas and California can span regions with three or four "dialects" where people from those regions would be unable to verbally communicate in their native tongues?
I don't have to Texas as an example. You can go small distances in the UK and there is a change in dialect. The tiny difference in dialect between Tianjin and Beijing do not prove anything.

And did you know the distance from Texas to California could span five to ten languages in Europe.
 
Old 08-25-2014, 08:57 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,262,981 times
Reputation: 7586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
And you can also tell the accent of Texas and California apart within 5 seconds as well.

China may have some variation, but it is not really a surprise considering the size of China. If you joined US, and Europe into one country it would have a lot of variation.
what are you even talking about?

China is of comparable size of the US in land area. Why do you add Europe into it?

Another common misunderstanding is that many seem to think this thing called "mandarin" is spoken by all northern and south western regions in China. Under the Mandarin category there are at least 5 or 6 dialect regions which are not necessarily mutually intelligible to each other. For example, someone from Beijing may not understand more than 20% of the dialect from Yangzhou, Jiangsu province, part of the "mandarin" region.

Trust me, the entire mandarin region doesn't speak the same language and they certain can't fully understand each other if conversation is not done in the official language.

Speaking of Europe, many languages are not really "languages".

Dutch/German are very very similar.
Spanish/Portugese/Italian are systematically similar to each other from pronunciation to grammar to vocabulary.
Norweigian and Swedish are practically the same language. Danish as well.

If the exactly same standard is applied, China would have at least 6-10 "languages" even among the Han population (other ethnic languages excluded).
 
Old 08-25-2014, 09:01 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,262,981 times
Reputation: 7586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
I don't have to Texas as an example. You can go small distances in the UK and there is a change in dialect. The tiny difference in dialect between Tianjin and Beijing do not prove anything.

And did you know the distance from Texas to California could span five to ten languages in Europe.

Try Wenzhou dialect. People 3km away the city might have trouble understanding it. In Shanghai, people from central city have difficulty understanding those from the outer suburbs such as Jinshan and Chongming (within the same municipality).

You are vastly underestimating variation in Chinese dialects.

China and the UK are both extremely old civilizations and there is tremendous difference in dialects. Difference in American accents is simply negligible in the same context.
 
Old 08-25-2014, 11:57 AM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,172,752 times
Reputation: 11619
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
what are you even talking about?

China is of comparable size of the US in land area. Why do you add Europe into it?

Another common misunderstanding is that many seem to think this thing called "mandarin" is spoken by all northern and south western regions in China. Under the Mandarin category there are at least 5 or 6 dialect regions which are not necessarily mutually intelligible to each other. For example, someone from Beijing may not understand more than 20% of the dialect from Yangzhou, Jiangsu province, part of the "mandarin" region.

Trust me, the entire mandarin region doesn't speak the same language and they certain can't fully understand each other if conversation is not done in the official language.

Speaking of Europe, many languages are not really "languages".

Dutch/German are very very similar.
Spanish/Portugese/Italian are systematically similar to each other from pronunciation to grammar to vocabulary.
Norweigian and Swedish are practically the same language. Danish as well.

If the exactly same standard is applied, China would have at least 6-10 "languages" even among the Han population (other ethnic languages excluded).
Not really. I'm a native speaker of Spanish and I can't understand spoken Portuguese if my life depended on it.
 
Old 08-25-2014, 12:35 PM
 
6,726 posts, read 6,606,089 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Not really. I'm a native speaker of Spanish and I can't understand spoken Portuguese if my life depended on it.
I heard Portuguese speakers understand Spanish well, but the opposite is not true.
Italians generally understand Spanish to some extent too.
Is it the case?
 
Old 08-25-2014, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Taipei
6,774 posts, read 5,122,827 times
Reputation: 4566
^Yes it is.Portuguese and Brazilians could understand Spanish to a certain extent while the rest of Latin Americans and Spanish couldn't understand Portuguese in general.Some Brazilian and Mexican people told me this.
Italian and Spanish are quite similar,I was told by the same people about this.

Which is sort of the case among Norwegian,Danish,and Swedish.Swedish and Norwegian are really very similar while the pronunciation of Danish is very different,so Danish (probably) understand Swedish and Norwegian to a certain extent,but not the other way around.I'm not sure about this though,Camlon knows better.

However none of those European languages are as similar as you think.There is no way that a Portugese or Brazilian could totally understand Spanish or a Nowegian that could totally understand Swedish(had they not learnt the languages,of couse).That statement about "Dutch and German are very very similar" is wrong at so many levels.Just within the German language there are tons of variations,a German from Berlin basically can't understand what a Swiss is talking about.Also,Dutch spoken in the Belgian tv shows needs to be subtitled in the Netherlands.They are more different than Chinese dialects,as Chinese dialects usually share the same grammar system,while Dutch and German do not.

Anyway,as far as "diversity" is concerned,language is not the only criterion.I would never say the US is less diverse than China even though linguistically,everybody in the US only speaks English(and Spanish at most),but racially and culturally,US is called a melting pot for a reason.
China certainly doesn't hold up against the diversity of Europe at all,,or any other continent in the world,for that matter(except for Antarctica of course).
 
Old 08-26-2014, 04:05 AM
 
3,123 posts, read 2,703,036 times
Reputation: 1713
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
what are you even talking about?

China is of comparable size of the US in land area. Why do you add Europe into it?
Europe is also comparable size, and is much more similar in terms on population. And why does it need to be the same size?

Quote:
Another common misunderstanding is that many seem to think this thing called "mandarin" is spoken by all northern and south western regions in China. Under the Mandarin category there are at least 5 or 6 dialect regions which are not necessarily mutually intelligible to each other. For example, someone from Beijing may not understand more than 20% of the dialect from Yangzhou, Jiangsu province, part of the "mandarin" region.
But the people in Jiangsu region does not speak mandarin. The places that actually speak mandarin can understand eachother.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...sh_version.svg

Quote:
Speaking of Europe, many languages are not really "languages".

Dutch/German are very very similar.

Spanish/Portugese/Italian are systematically similar to each other from pronunciation to grammar to vocabulary.
Norweigian and Swedish are practically the same language. Danish as well.

If the exactly same standard is applied, China would have at least 6-10 "languages" even among the Han population (other ethnic languages excluded).
And your point being. Does that mean Europe has zero variety and china has massive variety.

As pointed out many times before, China got some variation no doubt about that, but don't overdo yourself. It is totally ridiculous to think that China has lots of variation that does not exist in the west.

Last edited by Camlon; 08-26-2014 at 04:19 AM..
 
Old 08-26-2014, 11:01 AM
 
6,726 posts, read 6,606,089 times
Reputation: 2386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
Europe is also comparable size, and is much more similar in terms on population. And why does it need to be the same size?


But the people in Jiangsu region does not speak mandarin. The places that actually speak mandarin can understand eachother.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...sh_version.svg



And your point being. Does that mean Europe has zero variety and china has massive variety.

As pointed out many times before, China got some variation no doubt about that, but don't overdo yourself. It is totally ridiculous to think that China has lots of variation that does not exist in the west.
Why do you keep claiming you know more about China than native Chinese? Just because you visited China and date a Chinese woman?
Don't you think you are too arrogant? Many of your arguments are laughable.

Nanjing and Yangzhou etc. are in Jiangsu Province but people there speak Mandarin dialects. Only people in south Jiangsu do not speak Mandarin dialects as their native language. Mandarin dialects are not 100% mutually intelligible either. A person from Beijing does not understand a person from Yangzhou.
 
Old 08-26-2014, 11:39 AM
 
3,123 posts, read 2,703,036 times
Reputation: 1713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Why do you keep claiming you know more about China than native Chinese? Just because you visited China and date a Chinese woman?
Don't you think you are too arrogant? Many of your arguments are laughable.
Your arguments are pathetic. First, off you don't even live in China so the same argument applies to yourself. Secondly, just because you are Chinese does not mean you know much. There are many stupid people in China. Thirdly, I don't date a Chinese woman, you don't know anything about me.

I would also like to point that when people start using personal attacks, then it just shows that they lack real arguments.

Quote:
Nanjing and Yangzhou etc. are in Jiangsu Province but people there speak Mandarin dialects. Only people in south Jiangsu do not speak Mandarin dialects as their native language. Mandarin dialects are not 100% mutually intelligible either. A person from Beijing does not understand a person from Yangzhou.
Both Yangzhou and Nanjing is in south Jiangsu, so you defeated your own argument.

People from Beijing cannot understad people from Yangzhou because they do not speak mandarin.
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