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Old 08-26-2014, 01:42 PM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,180,679 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
I heard Portuguese speakers understand Spanish well, but the opposite is not true.
Italians generally understand Spanish to some extent too.
Is it the case?
I can understand some Italian when it is spoken, but I've spoken with Brazilians before, and they can understand my Spanish, but I can't understand Portuguese. Portuguese sounds too different to my ears, but I can read it. So, yes, it is true.

 
Old 08-26-2014, 02:05 PM
 
6,726 posts, read 6,609,353 times
Reputation: 2386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
Your arguments are pathetic. First, off you don't even live in China so the same argument applies to yourself. Secondly, just because you are Chinese does not mean you know much. There are many stupid people in China. Thirdly, I don't date a Chinese woman, you don't know anything about me.

I would also like to point that when people start using personal attacks, then it just shows that they lack real arguments.



Both Yangzhou and Nanjing is in south Jiangsu, so you defeated your own argument.

People from Beijing cannot understad people from Yangzhou because they do not speak mandarin.
I lived in China for 22 years and know light years more than you do. Can you even read Chinese?? Can you even understand TV news in Chinese?

South Jiangsu (Su Nan) is a special term reserved for three cities only: Suzhou, Wuxi, and Changzhou. People in these three cities speak Wu Chinese.
You know nothing about China and please be more humble. People in Nanjing and Yangzhou speak Jianghuai Mandarin 江淮官话。In fact the dialect of Yangzhou often represents Jianghuai Mandarin in textbooks.

I'm tired of ignorant foreigners keeping claiming they know more about China than native Chinese. It's the source of many troubles in the world.

Last edited by Bettafish; 08-26-2014 at 03:07 PM..
 
Old 08-26-2014, 11:35 PM
 
3,123 posts, read 2,704,092 times
Reputation: 1713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
I lived in China for 22 years and know light years more than you do. Can you even read Chinese?? Can you even understand TV news in Chinese?
And now you don't live in China, and have no authority on the subject. China changes much from year to year, you would have no clue how it is changing. In fact what had happened is that offical mandarin has blended together with their dialect, making it possible to understand them, just like people in the Nordic countries can understand eachother.

In a previous thread you proved yourself clueless about North Korea, and you still kept talking. A little bit hypocritical, maybe?

Quote:
South Jiangsu (Su Nan) is a special term reserved for three cities only: Suzhou, Wuxi, and Changzhou. People in these three cities speak Wu Chinese.

You know nothing about China and please be more humble. People in Nanjing and Yangzhou speak Jianghuai Mandarin 江淮官话。In fact the dialect of Yangzhou often represents Jianghuai Mandarin in textbooks.

I'm tired of ignorant foreigners keeping claiming they know more about China than native Chinese. It's the source of many troubles in the world.
Right, the source of trouble in the world is foreigners talking about China, and who are not humble to arrogant Chinese people. What a stupid statement, chinese people are not perfect, and having a chinese passport do not make you an expert.

The way you define south Jiangsu is ridiculous. I may not know specifics of Jiangsu and how they may define south Jiangsu. But it is irrelevant, if no one can understand them, then they are not speaking mandarin. Maybe officially, but not if you make a reasonable definition.

Your point was that China is much more diverse than Europe. That does not only require knowledge about China, but also of Europe. If you lived by your own standards, then you would stay quiet. In Europe the majority language is only spoken by 15 percent of the population. Is understandable mandarin only spoken by 15 percent of the population in China?

Last edited by Camlon; 08-27-2014 at 12:26 AM..
 
Old 08-27-2014, 09:42 AM
 
6,726 posts, read 6,609,353 times
Reputation: 2386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
And now you don't live in China, and have no authority on the subject. China changes much from year to year, you would have no clue how it is changing. In fact what had happened is that offical mandarin has blended together with their dialect, making it possible to understand them, just like people in the Nordic countries can understand eachother.

In a previous thread you proved yourself clueless about North Korea, and you still kept talking. A little bit hypocritical, maybe?


Right, the source of trouble in the world is foreigners talking about China, and who are not humble to arrogant Chinese people. What a stupid statement, chinese people are not perfect, and having a chinese passport do not make you an expert.

The way you define south Jiangsu is ridiculous. I may not know specifics of Jiangsu and how they may define south Jiangsu. But it is irrelevant, if no one can understand them, then they are not speaking mandarin. Maybe officially, but not if you make a reasonable definition.

Your point was that China is much more diverse than Europe. That does not only require knowledge about China, but also of Europe. If you lived by your own standards, then you would stay quiet. In Europe the majority language is only spoken by 15 percent of the population. Is understandable mandarin only spoken by 15 percent of the population in China?
My whole family is in China and I go back almost every year.

South Jiangsu (Su Nan) is a term reserved for three cities: Suzhou, Wuxi and Changzhou. Ask anyone from Jiangsu and he can tell you that. Stop arguing when you have no clue. It makes you ridiculous.

Mandarin does not only refer to standard Chinese. It is a group of dialects with some common characteristics, and it also include the dialect of Beijing. Again, if you have no clue, stop arguing. Check wikipedia etc. for more information. The following is copied from wikipedia:
However, the varieties of Mandarin cover a huge area containing nearly a billion people. As a result, there are pronounced regional variations in pronunciation, vocabulary, and grammar, and many Mandarin varieties are not mutually intelligible.

Moderator cut: rude

Last edited by Oldhag1; 08-27-2014 at 01:12 PM.. Reason: Personal attack
 
Old 08-27-2014, 03:13 PM
 
3,123 posts, read 2,704,092 times
Reputation: 1713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
My whole family is in China and I go back almost every year.
Oh wow, that truly makes you an expert on China.

Quote:
South Jiangsu (Su Nan) is a term reserved for three cities: Suzhou, Wuxi and Changzhou. Ask anyone from Jiangsu and he can tell you that. Stop arguing when you have no clue. It makes you ridiculous.
I never said that was not the official definition. I said it does not matter.

Quote:
Mandarin does not only refer to standard Chinese. It is a group of dialects with some common characteristics, and it also include the dialect of Beijing. Again, if you have no clue, stop arguing. Check wikipedia etc. for more information. The following is copied from wikipedia:
However, the varieties of Mandarin cover a huge area containing nearly a billion people. As a result, there are pronounced regional variations in pronunciation, vocabulary, and grammar, and many Mandarin varieties are not mutually intelligible.
People in China do not talk about totally different dialects and call it mandarin. They are named after the region of course. If you actually lived in China, you would know that.

Secondly, it does not matter. No matter how you want to define mandarin it does not change the fact that mandarin is spoken in a lot of areas in China and they can understand eachother. However, in Europe there are no main language like there are in China.

You seem to forget that we are not just talking about China, you compared China to the west. That means you need to talk about the west too. Trying to argue about definition of Mandarin won't help you at all to prove your point.
 
Old 08-27-2014, 05:39 PM
 
501 posts, read 462,035 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
People in China do not talk about totally different dialects and call it mandarin. They are named after the region of course. If you actually lived in China, you would know that.
I think you guys are conflating different concepts because of the word mandarin has two different meanings when referring to Chinese languages that translate to two different words in Chinese. One is 普通話, the standard common language of China that is essentially a recently invented language based (mostly) off the Beijing dialect of Chinese and has been promoted by the government as the common language of all of China. When people say they speak mandarin, they mean this, and yes all those guys can communicate fairly easy with each other.

The other is a language group called mandarin, 官話, which encompasses a lot of variations/dialects of mandarin that can be quite different from each other.

Quote:
Secondly, it does not matter. No matter how you want to define mandarin it does not change the fact that mandarin is spoken in a lot of areas in China and they can understand eachother. However, in Europe there are no main language like there are in China.
This is rather obvious no? There is no central European government enforcing that people learn a common language, while China has been doing this for centuries (more focused and successful with written language until recently, of course).

Last edited by strad; 08-27-2014 at 07:00 PM..
 
Old 08-27-2014, 10:25 PM
 
6,726 posts, read 6,609,353 times
Reputation: 2386
Quote:
Originally Posted by strad View Post
I think you guys are conflating different concepts because of the word mandarin has two different meanings when referring to Chinese languages that translate to two different words in Chinese. One is 普通話, the standard common language of China that is essentially a recently invented language based (mostly) off the Beijing dialect of Chinese and has been promoted by the government as the common language of all of China. When people say they speak mandarin, they mean this, and yes all those guys can communicate fairly easy with each other.

The other is a language group called mandarin, 官話, which encompasses a lot of variations/dialects of mandarin that can be quite different from each other.

This is rather obvious no? There is no central European government enforcing that people learn a common language, while China has been doing this for centuries (more focused and successful with written language until recently, of course).
I already told him Mandarin does not only refer to standard Chinese, but he won't listen and thinks he knows it all.
If we are only talking about putonghua, 70% Chinese cannot speak it (yes, even peasants in North China cannot speak it, but they understand it).
 
Old 08-27-2014, 10:48 PM
 
3,123 posts, read 2,704,092 times
Reputation: 1713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
I already told him Mandarin does not only refer to standard Chinese, but he won't listen and thinks he knows it all.
If we are only talking about putonghua, 70% Chinese cannot speak it (yes, even peasants in North China cannot speak it, but they understand it).
So your whole argument was based on talking about Guān hu, instead of Pǔtōnghu. Who talks about Guān hu when they talk about mandarin? Not only did you talk about it, but you expected me to talk about guan hua as well.

And you still seem incapable of focusing on the topic. It does not matter if we talk about guān hu or pǔtōnghu. China does have a main language, Europe doesn't. Your argument that China is much more diverse than Europe is truly false.
 
Old 08-27-2014, 10:53 PM
 
3,123 posts, read 2,704,092 times
Reputation: 1713
Quote:
Originally Posted by strad View Post
I think you guys are conflating different concepts because of the word mandarin has two different meanings when referring to Chinese languages that translate to two different words in Chinese. One is 普通話, the standard common language of China that is essentially a recently invented language based (mostly) off the Beijing dialect of Chinese and has been promoted by the government as the common language of all of China. When people say they speak mandarin, they mean this, and yes all those guys can communicate fairly easy with each other.

The other is a language group called mandarin, 官話, which encompasses a lot of variations/dialects of mandarin that can be quite different from each other.
Thanks Strad for clearing that up.
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