U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-05-2014, 05:30 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,250,780 times
Reputation: 7578

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpk-nyc View Post
Those are useful steps, but China’s air pollution problems go far beyond automobile emissions. To really make a difference they have to go after heavy industry and coal.
We need to look at Chinese as a developing country before apply western standard to its environment issues.

150(?) years ago, London's pollution was so bad that thousand of people, and cattle died from the pollutants. And if you look at inflation adjusted GDP per capita, China has almost exactly the same number as London at that time.

Easy to say "why not shut down those heavy industries". What should the workers do, go back to the farmland to make $1 a day? You can't turn back time and ask people to go back to utter poverty. China is transitional, and there is considerable pain associated with it.

If China doesn't grow and develop, well, look at what western countries did to it during 1840-1940s.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-05-2014, 07:00 PM
 
3,123 posts, read 2,700,412 times
Reputation: 1713
London pollution problems were 60 years ago, not only 150 years ago.

Also I agree with what you are saying about Paris being different than the whole nation and that you can get addicted to using the car. But I think you will be surprised how many Parisians own a car.

Chinese people are not the only ones who can get addicted to using cars.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2014, 07:50 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,250,780 times
Reputation: 7578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
London pollution problems were 60 years ago, not only 150 years ago.
You are right! 150 years ago would be the 1800s, doesn't make any sense
It was 1952, 4000 died.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/cou...th-apathy.html

People have short memories. Now China is at this stage and everyone acts as if they are doing something extraordinarily bad.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2014, 07:55 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,250,780 times
Reputation: 7578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
But I think you will be surprised how many Parisians own a car.
Owning a car is quite different from driving your car when unnecessarily (somewhere 2km away, or 5 subway stops away as I mentioned).

The thing is, Beijing can't afford everyone driving a car. It has over 20M people, and it simply won't be possible. It shouldn't want to be another Sao Paulo where helicopters are used as taxi. I am afraid the city is already on the wrong path.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2014, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Mount of Showing the Way
1,953 posts, read 2,068,651 times
Reputation: 615

Thick Smog Returns to Beijing - YouTube
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2014, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,779 posts, read 13,347,718 times
Reputation: 11309
^ We have days that are like that in Guangzhou. On a clear day, I can see quite far. On a bad day, I can't see the neon-lit Canton Tower from my balcony, and I'm 2km away.

Conversely, on a bad smog day in LA, I could still see Downtown Los Angeles from my roof in Beverly Hills, which is about 10 miles/16km away... and people endlessly rip on LA about its smog.

All told, I haven't noticed it effecting me in any way since I've been here. It's certainly not good, nor is it healthy, but it's not like I've hacked a lung up in the last month and a half.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2014, 09:12 AM
 
32,055 posts, read 32,950,797 times
Reputation: 14942
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post

All told, I haven't noticed it effecting me in any way since I've been here. It's certainly not good, nor is it healthy, but it's not like I've hacked a lung up in the last month and a half.
The question is what is the long term effect of being exposed to all that pollution on a daily basis rather than the short term effect which for many people is not that significant.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2014, 10:17 AM
 
1,862 posts, read 3,001,689 times
Reputation: 2108
It's a catastrophe. There is simply no urban area in China now that is not heavily polluted. And most rural areas as well. The country is an ecological basket case. The common people have no choice but to bear it. Everyone that has the means sets up an escape route; this usually takes the form of sending the kids abroad for education where they invariably end up getting green cards or the local equivalent. Mom goes with to take care of them and dad stays behind in China to keep making money.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2014, 11:17 AM
 
Location: california
5,654 posts, read 4,875,766 times
Reputation: 6681
I wonder several thing about them.
What measures are they taking to use alternative resources ,wave ,wind and solar?
They produce the stuff there but do they use it?
Seems that the poor can't afford much to do on their own but scratch from day to day.
Social pressures might be one reason, but it has to be more than that.
Being comunist I would assume that most are ignorant of options much less access to the internet. there are a few but those are the exception I think.
They can be brutal, to those stepping out of cultural norms.
The way governments lie to their people about want is and isn't safe is appalling, and I would bet that the Fukushima steam from the plant, is washing past china every day and no one is saying a word.
Look at the average weather maps for your self.
Personally I don't think their government cares, much like our own . Population reduction is a world effort if you didn't know it.
But then I could be completely wrong.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2014, 12:00 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,250,780 times
Reputation: 7578
Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
I wonder several thing about them.
What measures are they taking to use alternative resources ,wave ,wind and solar?
They produce the stuff there but do they use it?
Seems that the poor can't afford much to do on their own but scratch from day to day.
Social pressures might be one reason, but it has to be more than that.
Being comunist I would assume that most are ignorant of options much less access to the internet. there are a few but those are the exception I think.
They can be brutal, to those stepping out of cultural norms.
The way governments lie to their people about want is and isn't safe is appalling, and I would bet that the Fukushima steam from the plant, is washing past china every day and no one is saying a word.
Look at the average weather maps for your self.
Personally I don't think their government cares, much like our own . Population reduction is a world effort if you didn't know it.
But then I could be completely wrong.
Yes, you are (almost) completely wrong.

China is developing renewable energy very aggressively. The government is not stupid and is doing what they can. Most of the world's new nuclear plants happen in China. The Three Gorges hydro project is the largest in human history. CHina is by far the world's largest solar panel and wind energ producer as well. Unfortunately changes take time and it still heavily relies on coal.

People are not ignorant. Chinese today travel around the world. China has 600 million interenet users and penetration rate is is about 45%. Almost all urban population (about half of its total) have access to computer and the internet. The young generation is cities use smart phones, ipads just like Americans do.

What did the government lie to their people about what is not isn't safe that is so "appalling"? You sound like a brainwashed CNN watcher. The Chinese government does lie to its people, just American government does.

The government cares about its people, probably more than American governments do. Per capita GDP increased 20 times in the past 25 years. I dont know where else can make this happen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top