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Old 02-02-2014, 05:56 AM
 
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How do the Chinese people think that they can reduce the severe pollution that they have in their country?
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Old 02-02-2014, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
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A lot of cities are doing what Mexico city did: odd/even days where you can or can't drive according to the last number on your plate. Also, they're pushing electric cars and offering owners an exemption to the odd/even plate days, and very slowly trying to push companies to adopt pollution controls.
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Old 02-02-2014, 04:11 PM
 
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india.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/30/why-the-u-s-embassy-releases-pollution-data-in-beijing-but-not-in-delhi
This is nothing new but still top 10 tourist destinations in the world despite it get lots hate

Last edited by bigpimpingballa; 02-02-2014 at 04:23 PM..
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Old 02-04-2014, 12:42 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,289,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
A lot of cities are doing what Mexico city did: odd/even days where you can or can't drive according to the last number on your plate. Also, they're pushing electric cars and offering owners an exemption to the odd/even plate days, and very slowly trying to push companies to adopt pollution controls.
Beijing is already doing that for some time. Didn't change things that much.
Shanghai chooses to use financial measures instead by charging about $8000-10000 for a licence plate, but number of cars is still increasing.

I don't think there is a short term solution unless Draconian measures are taken, which will surely undermine the economy and employment. Los Angeles and London have both been there, and I am sure China will outgrow it in 10-20 years. In the near term, air quality will remain poor.

China's lack of natural resources forces it to rely heavily on coal. On a per capita basis, China's oil and gas reserve is something like 10-15% of world average. Coal is 40%. It is rapidly increasing hydro and nuclear power capacities, quite impressive indeed.

Things will change.
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Old 02-04-2014, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Denver
3,202 posts, read 2,653,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Beijing is already doing that for some time. Didn't change things that much.
Shanghai chooses to use financial measures instead by charging about $8000-10000 for a licence plate, but number of cars is still increasing.

I don't think there is a short term solution unless Draconian measures are taken, which will surely undermine the economy and employment. Los Angeles and London have both been there, and I am sure China will outgrow it in 10-20 years. In the near term, air quality will remain poor.

China's lack of natural resources forces it to rely heavily on coal. On a per capita basis, China's oil and gas reserve is something like 10-15% of world average. Coal is 40%. It is rapidly increasing hydro and nuclear power capacities, quite impressive indeed.

Things will change.
Wow, people still drive when it costs $9000 for a plate on top of your car price??? Hopefully Chinese cities don't sprawl forever like LA though.
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Old 02-04-2014, 01:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Phil P View Post
Wow, people still drive when it costs $9000 for a plate on top of your car price??? Hopefully Chinese cities don't sprawl forever like LA though.
I have the same question actually, but I do have the answer.

Car culture is quite different in China from the US. In Chinese cities, cars are still considered as a symbol of success and social status (hardly anyone had a private car only 15 years ago), so people choose to have cars more out of a display of wealth than out of necesity.

Shanghai and Beijing each has 12-14 subway lines, with total system longer than any other city in the world. Though crowded, price is very reasonable - it is $0.5-1.5 in Shanghai depending on distance, and a flat $0.35 in Beijing. Yet people still keep buying cars and keep driving, although often it doesn't make sense either in terms of money or time. Both cities are extremely congested, although Beijing is far worth due to the laxed regulation on car ownership.

There are many young people who make $1000 a month yet still decide to buy $20k cars, because due to peer pressure, not having a personal vehicle is shameful for many. For example, some girls might not want to date you if you don't have a car.

Beijing has already sprawled for dacades and commute is miserable for most people. It is already as bad as LA if not worse. Shanghai did better but in recent 10 years the suburban sprawl seems to be out of control as well - much of the remote suburbs which nobody ever goes gradually become dense residential neighbourhoods.

I personally think unless one is very wealthy, the majority of residents in Beijing and Shanghai, as well as other medium size cities, don't need cars. Chinese cities usually have excellent public transit and it is very cheap. However, for now, the Chinese choose to follow the American lifestyle instead of the European one.

And just due to the population and resources, we all know that the Chinese will Never have the typical suburban house + double garage lifestyle. I hope someday there will realize that.
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Old 02-04-2014, 05:38 PM
 
3,134 posts, read 2,708,995 times
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What makes you think European lifestyle is carless? Most Europeans have cars. Beijing has 5 million cars, if it were similar to an France, Germany it would have had 12 million cars. Having a car is practical, not all places (even in Beijing) is connected to a subway. You might need to take the bus, then take the subway and then take the bus again using one and a half hour. Instead you could have driven for 30 minutes. Also what about the times you want to bring heavy stuff somewhere. You can replace that with taxis, but its more practical with a car.

Also I don't think you can compare Chinese sprawl with American sprawl. The population density is still very high. I really don't see the problem with a little bit lower population density. People need a decent place to live.

I think an more important solution to pollution is reducing dependency on coal. Also a, lot of factories outside Beijing need to clean up as well.

Last edited by Camlon; 02-04-2014 at 05:47 PM..
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Old 02-04-2014, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Even in 2006 I remember the traffic in Beijing was insane, some of the worst traffic jams I've ever seen and it seemed almost 24/7 sometimes. I hope they don't go down the same route as America etc, but America would need to show an example. Problem is, American cities are more car-dependent with poorer public transport.

Obviously switching to more green energy, although it will be costly, it will be necessary in the long term.
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Old 02-05-2014, 06:21 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,289,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
What makes you think European lifestyle is carless? Most Europeans have cars. Beijing has 5 million cars, if it were similar to an France, Germany it would have had 12 million cars. Having a car is practical, not all places (even in Beijing) is connected to a subway. You might need to take the bus, then take the subway and then take the bus again using one and a half hour. Instead you could have driven for 30 minutes. Also what about the times you want to bring heavy stuff somewhere. You can replace that with taxis, but its more practical with a car.

Also I don't think you can compare Chinese sprawl with American sprawl. The population density is still very high. I really don't see the problem with a little bit lower population density. People need a decent place to live.

I think an more important solution to pollution is reducing dependency on coal. Also a, lot of factories outside Beijing need to clean up as well.
You are not comparing apple to apple. You need to compare Beijing with its vast transit system to Paris, not the entire France, which includes small towns and village which are care dependent.

Yes most Europeans have cars, but how many Parisians or Londoners or Madrilenians own cars? I agree that people may still need cars for some trip, but it really depends on how often. If you make those 20 mile trip only occasionally, and need to carry really bulky stuff once every 3 months, then maybe calling a taxi makes more sense? Taxi fare is pretty affordable in Beijing as well even considering income.

The problem with owning a car is you will gradually become addicted to it. Visit a friend merely 20 minutes walking distance away, you would drive if you have a car (that's how Americans got so fat); or going shopping in a mall that's 5 subway stops away, you would drive if you have car. all this increases congestion when it is not really out of necessary.

I agree the need to reduce dependency on coal but it is not easy. As I said China has very little oil and natural gas resources, but they are expanding clean energy very aggressively more than any other country in the world.
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Old 02-05-2014, 03:32 PM
 
Location: New York City
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Those are useful steps, but China’s air pollution problems go far beyond automobile emissions. To really make a difference they have to go after heavy industry and coal.
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