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Old 02-03-2014, 01:42 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,152,136 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Actually there's been a few terrorist attacks in Indonesia, the most well known and deadly being the 2002 and 2005 Bali bombings. Also the Marriott bombings in Jakarta. Indonesia is still a breeding ground for Islamic terrorism, but it wouldn't stop me from visiting Java or Bali, in fact I'm going to Bali soon. I don't hear about terrorist attacks in KL at all. The Australian government warns against visiting the eastern provinces/islands, like Sulawesi and Irian Jaya, but they don't often update their info frequently.

I'd say for this particular individual Malaysia is a much better choice than Indonesia for a first-timer to South-East Asia. It's safer, easier to get around within and between cities (better public transport, but not as good as Singapore), a bit less chaotic, most people speak English - at the very least enough to help you if you get in trouble, it's more British, it has more attractions concentrated in a small area that are easily accessible, and the food is more diverse. Fewer touts and people hassling you/trying to rip you off, that sort of thing, which you find in most of Asia.

Indonesia is a fascinating place, to be sure, but aside from Bali, it takes more planning and is definitely more of an 'off the beaten track' experience. Java is very urban, but it's not a tourist-friendly place. You'll often have to rely on taxis, and in an unfamiliar place you never know what will happen. Sumatra, Kalimantan, Sulawesi, Flores.etc too, amazing places for nature and culture, but I would not recommend them for a first time visitor unless they know what they're getting into.
Please, the guy who bombed Bali was Malaysians and that's one fact that is undeniable, also explained why Malaysia never had terrorist attack before. The terrorist bombing in Indonesia is countable, even London gets terrorist attack before and that doesn't stop tourist from EU or any part of the world to flock in. Indonesia is not a terrorist breeding ground, there is very little activity of extremist and even the local extremist hardly bombed buildings before, the terrorist attack in Jakarta was done by jamayaah group in Southern Minandao. Ask any expat on how safe Jakarta is and you will receive many positive points.

As a matter of fact Indonesian Muslims are more open and liberal than Malaysians, in Indonesia Muslims can change their religion, pork are sold next to other meat stalls, alcohol aren't prohibited for Muslims, temples and churches do not get demolished for the sake of building a mosque as things happened in Malaysia where they get demolished because they're disturbing the peace of the mosque. Churches, Temples and Mosque can stand next to each other without having any issue. Allah word are widely used in Indonesia by the Christians without any issue or get used for political gain in Indonesia, even using islamic proverbs like "assalamulaikum" by non-muslims is totally not an issue.

The great mosque of Jakarta even stands next to the country's largest catholic church building

Provinces like Papua and especially Sulawesi are totally stable and safe, there's increasing number of tourist going for raja ampat, tanah toraja, Makassar and Manado, all very safe and away from the so called terrorist. It is undeniable that Indonesia have brutal history within those provinces, because we under a corrupt cruel dictator but things have rapidly change since the Asian Financial crisis. Even now Jakarta's governor right hand man is a Chinese and Christian, rights for every minorities have been improving by miles and provinces becomes stable, even Aceh.

As for Java, i would say Yogyakarta is quiet tourist friendly in particular but not as much in other cities. But for firstimer to Indonesia it is advisable to make Bali as your first destrination, because its very easy to get around the island.

As for touts, i wouldn't say KL is free of them and their number is obviously not small... especially near jalan alor and petaling street, saying it had fewer touts than most Asian cities is totally joke.

Last edited by Goshio22; 02-03-2014 at 01:56 AM..
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Old 02-03-2014, 01:56 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,301,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
Please, the guy who bombed Bali was Malaysians and that's one fact that is undeniable, also explained why Malaysia never had terrorist attack before. The terrorist bombing in Indonesia is countable, even London gets terrorist attack before and that doesn't stop tourist from EU or any part of the world to flock in. Indonesia is not a terrorist breeding ground, there is very little activity of extremist and even the local extremist hardly bombed buildings before, the terrorist attack in Jakarta was done by jamayaah group in Southern Minandao. Ask any expat on how safe Jakarta is and you will receive many positive points.

As a matter of fact Indonesian Muslims are more open and liberal than Malaysians, in Indonesia Muslims can change their religion, pork are sold next to other meat stalls, alcohol aren't prohibited for Muslims, temples and churches do not get demolished for the sake of building a mosque as things happened in Malaysia where they get demolished because they're disturbing the peace of the mosque. Churches, Temples and Mosque can stand next to each other without having any issue. Allah word are widely used in Indonesia without any issue or get used for political gain in Indonesia.

The great mosque of Jakarta even stands next to the country's largest catholic church building

Provinces like Papua and especially Sulawesi are totally stable and safe, there's increasing number of tourist going for raja ampat, tanah toraja, Makassar and Manado, all very safe and away from the so called terrorist. It is undeniable that Indonesia have brutal history within those provinces, because we under a corrupt cruel dictator but things have rapidly change since the Asian Financial crisis. Even now Jakarta's governor right hand man is a Chinese and Christian, rights for every minorities have been improving by miles and provinces becomes stable, even Aceh.

As for touts, i wouldn't say KL is free of them and their number is obviously not small... especially near jalan alor and petaling street, saying it had fewer touts than most Asian cities is totally joke.
Who are you referring to? The main ring-leaders were Javanese (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Bali_bombings). Even if they were, which they're not, it still happened in Indonesia, in Bali, targeted Western tourists. So far there haven't been any such incidents in Malaysia, yet how can anyone claim Malaysia is worse for terrorism from a tourist's point of view? Well I don't know how bad it is now, but the government is still keeping an eye on the region.

That's more the law, Indonesia is a secular state. There have been some pretty ugly conflicts like the riots in the late 90s when many Chinese businesses were destroyed and some killed I believe. I know the same thing has happened in Malaysia and relations there could be better, but I feel the resentment coupled with poverty is worse in Indonesia. None of this, btw, will have much of an affect on a western tourist who is no subject to Islamic family law.

I don't know if I'd trust that. People are still warned not to visit Irian Jaya. It's a very remote region, and there's a reason right now very very few tourists visit it. The vast majority of tourists visit Bali, Lombok, Java and parts of Sumatra, largely because of safety/infrastructure.

Which is a large reason why I said go for Malaysia over Indonesia. I guess you're Indonesian so you want to boost your country but let's be real, if you've been to either and are being honest you would have to say Malaysia offers a much more visitor friendly experience than Java, or Sumatra. Bali, while it has things that appeal, is full of people who will hassle you and is far from first world.

How much have you travelled around Asia? I'm familiar with KL, I don't get hassled there anywhere near what I would in Thailand, Vietnam, China, Sri Lanka. Maybe because Malaysia is semi first world.

BTW Malaysia's murder rate is about 2.6 per 100,000, Indonesia is 8.1 per 100,000.
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:17 AM
 
Location: West Jakarta + Tangerang
376 posts, read 746,194 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post

Indonesia is a fascinating place, to be sure, but aside from Bali, it takes more planning and is definitely more of an 'off the beaten track' experience. Java is very urban, but it's not a tourist-friendly place. You'll often have to rely on taxis, and in an unfamiliar place you never know what will happen. Sumatra, Kalimantan, Sulawesi, Flores.etc too, amazing places for nature and culture, but I would not recommend them for a first time visitor unless they know what they're getting into.
Mr. Postman if you Speaks about terrorism ... I think Thailand or Philipines is often heard even occur where bombs everywhere than in Indonesia is very rare, we were all very frightened if know somebody it terorisme or bomb incident ... the most hated here terrorism and considered uneducated and easily influenced. and did you know Indonesia have the best squad " Detasemen " to combat terrorism . because we all always think positive.
TERRORISM in Indonesia is Past, and will die forever get to the root of the root
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:19 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,152,136 times
Reputation: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Who are you referring to? The main ring-leaders were Javanese (see: 2002 Bali bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Even if they were, which they're not, it still happened in Indonesia, in Bali, targeted Western tourists. So far there haven't been any such incidents in Malaysia, yet how can anyone claim Malaysia is worse for terrorism from a tourist's point of view? Well I don't know how bad it is now, but the government is still keeping an eye on the region.

That's more the law, Indonesia is a secular state. There have been some pretty ugly conflicts like the riots in the late 90s when many Chinese businesses were destroyed and some killed I believe. I know the same thing has happened in Malaysia and relations there could be better, but I feel the resentment coupled with poverty is worse in Indonesia. None of this, btw, will have much of an affect on a western tourist who is no subject to Islamic family law.

I don't know if I'd trust that. People are still warned not to visit Irian Jaya. It's a very remote region, and there's a reason right now very very few tourists visit it. The vast majority of tourists visit Bali, Lombok, Java and parts of Sumatra, largely because of safety/infrastructure.

Which is a large reason why I said go for Malaysia over Indonesia. I guess you're Indonesian so you want to boost your country but let's be real, if you've been to either and are being honest you would have to say Malaysia offers a much more visitor friendly experience than Java, or Sumatra. Bali, while it has things that appeal, is full of people who will hassle you and is far from first world.

How much have you travelled around Asia? I'm familiar with KL, I don't get hassled there anywhere near what I would in Thailand, Vietnam, China, Sri Lanka. Maybe because Malaysia is semi first world.

BTW Malaysia's murder rate is about 2.6 per 100,000, Indonesia is 8.1 per 100,000.
Sure Indonesia have bombing in its history, but what makes you say that it is the Islamic terrorism breeding ground? Indonesian government are surpressing them, sending special units to purge them should they be discovered. Airport security in Indonesia is very thight for many reason and because we are unwilling to risk another terrorist attack, since the attack in Jakarta there is very little issue of terrorism, people are more likely to die because of traffic accident rather than terrorist attack.

Why should i boost my own country? i just want truth to be spoken. Malaysia is more visitor friendly due to the fact it had better infrastructure and that is the fact, the level of tourismt infrastructure of Malaysia especially in Semenanjung is pretty well developed, as compared to Indonesia where only Bali and Java have the infras. But the fact that Indonesia being a larger country to offer much more than Malaysia doesn't that make any odd at all? or perhaps not-so for a firstimer if infras do matters for them, but many Australians firstimer to Bali seems to love it anyway. And it is undeniable that Indonesia also offers much more variety of cultural heritage than of Malaysia. Malaysia may have variety from 3 ethnics and some tenths of Bumiputras retaining their own identity, but Indonesia is diverse in its own way by having 300+ethnic groups living on each different island.

Malaysia is indeed safer and easier to travel, but there's a reason it had lesser murder rate, the population number is far faaaaaaar less than of Indonesia and are much smaller and compacter country than Indonesia. People dont go to Irian Jaya mainly because of infrastructure issue and the fact that it wasn't as promoted as Bali, very few people have any idea of Irian Jaya and about how safe it is or even Borobudur sometimes are still unknown to many tourist. I don't force you to understand or believe whatever i said but i do know this, it is a lot more safer than Papua New Guinea in terms of crime rate and kidnappings. (never heard of kidnapping in fact)

Australians government giving travel warning to Indonesia is not a new thing, they have been saying that for ages now, because Indonesia refuses to release the province and the fact that majority of the population are still pro-government.

Ohh trust me i've been around KL for long enough to get to know the city as a foreigner, do you think i lied about living there for 2 years? i probably get less hassled than Bangkok but scammers definitely lurks in the street. The most common scam i saw in KL is group of students/young people trying to rip people through charity by saying that it was part of their art project or something else? my friend told me about how they are related to local gangs. This one can be easily avoided, but sometimes they can be true hassle trying to get you make charity. And let's not forget the hassle you get from refusing "massage service" in Bukit Bintang.

Truthfully i have nothing againts Malaysia, and i do enjoy the country, but there are just some statement which i couldn't get on agreeing with.

Last edited by Goshio22; 02-03-2014 at 02:37 AM..
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:35 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,301,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
Sure Indonesia have bombing in its history, but what makes you say that it is the Islamic terrorism breeding ground? Indonesian government are surpressing them, sending special units to purge them should they be discovered. Airport security in Indonesia is very thight for many reason and because we are unwilling to risk another terrorist attack, since the attack in Jakarta there is very little issue of terrorism, people are more likely to die because of traffic accident rather than terrorist attack.

Why should i boost my own country? i just want truth to be spoken. Malaysia is more visitor friendly due to the fact it had better infrastructure and that is the fact, but the fact that Indonesia being a larger country to offer much more than Malaysia doesn't that make any odd at all? or perhaps not-so for a firstimer if infras do matters for them, but many Australians firstimer to Bali seems to love it anyway. And it is undeniable that Indonesia also offers much more variety of cultural heritage than of Malaysia. Malaysia may have variety from 3 ethnics and some tenths of Bumiputras retaining their own identity, but Indonesia is diverse in its own way by having 300+ethnic groups living on each different island.

Malaysia is indeed safer and easier to travel, but there's a reason it had lesser murder rate, the population number is far faaaaaaar less than of Indonesia and are much smaller and compacter country than Indonesia. People dont go to Irian Jaya mainly because of infrastructure issue and the fact that it wasn't as promoted as Bali, very few people have any idea of Irian Jaya and about how safe it is or even Borobudur sometimes are still unknown to many tourist. I don't force you to understand or believe whatever i said but i do know this, it is a lot more safer than Papua New Guinea in terms of crime rate and stable too.

Australians government giving travel warning to Indonesia is not a new thing, they have been saying that for ages now, because Indonesia refuses to release the province and the fact that majority of the population are still pro-government.

Ohh trust me i've been around KL for long enough to get to know the city as a foreigner, do you think i lied about living there for 2 years? i probably get less hassled than Bangkok but scammers definitely lurks in the street. The most common scam i saw in KL is group of students/young people trying to rip people through charity by saying that it was part of their art project or something else? my friend told me about how they are related to local gangs. This one can be easily avoided, but sometimes they can be true hassle trying to get you make charity.
Well it's what we hear. Of course I don't believe everything I hear on the news. Like I said, it's not a major factor, but just letting the OP know that there is still a risk, however low.

I'm not saying Indonesia doesn't have a lot more to offer. More - I guess it's debatable, and as for cultural diversity, maybe indigenous, but Malaysia has a lot of Indian and Chinese culture mixed in. Indonesia might have more languages and ethnic groups but most tourists do not go to places like Sulawesi or West Papua, or Kalimantan. Infrastructure, ease of travel, make Malaysia an easier option for the OP, which is why I recommended it over Indonesia, if he decided to visit either. You can ask anyone on any travel forum which they'd recommend a first-time visitor to visit first and most will say Malaysia. I'm not discouraging anyone from visiting Indonesia, but just want them to be aware it's a bit harder to travel around than Malaysia and more of a culture shock.

No this is per-capita, not total. So population size is irrelevant. Well there's been armed conflict there for decades with the Papuan freedom fighters and the Indonesian government. Plus not all tribes are friendly to tourists. Plus a lot of Indonesia has a lot of malaria, dengue fever, yellow fever.etc.

I've not got scammed by anyone in KL before, although I have encountered people asking for charity (did not assume they were a scam, though didn't give anything). In 3 days in Bangkok they tried to scam me on the first day.

Indonesia is a great place to visit and indeed underrated, but if the OP wants to avoid anything third world it is best avoided. Heck me probably might just stick to Singapore, but if he does want to venture to another country I would recommend Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand and then the others, simply for the reasons I mentioned about ease of travel, cleanliness, safety, culture shock.
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Old 02-03-2014, 02:49 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,152,136 times
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Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Well it's what we hear. Of course I don't believe everything I hear on the news. Like I said, it's not a major factor, but just letting the OP know that there is still a risk, however low.

I'm not saying Indonesia doesn't have a lot more to offer. More - I guess it's debatable, and as for cultural diversity, maybe indigenous, but Malaysia has a lot of Indian and Chinese culture mixed in. Indonesia might have more languages and ethnic groups but most tourists do not go to places like Sulawesi or West Papua, or Kalimantan. Infrastructure, ease of travel, make Malaysia an easier option for the OP, which is why I recommended it over Indonesia, if he decided to visit either. You can ask anyone on any travel forum which they'd recommend a first-time visitor to visit first and most will say Malaysia. I'm not discouraging anyone from visiting Indonesia, but just want them to be aware it's a bit harder to travel around than Malaysia and more of a culture shock.

No this is per-capita, not total. So population size is irrelevant. Well there's been armed conflict there for decades with the Papuan freedom fighters and the Indonesian government. Plus not all tribes are friendly to tourists. Plus a lot of Indonesia has a lot of malaria, dengue fever, yellow fever.etc.

I've not got scammed by anyone in KL before, although I have encountered people asking for charity (did not assume they were a scam, though didn't give anything). In 3 days in Bangkok they tried to scam me on the first day.

Indonesia is a great place to visit and indeed underrated, but if the OP wants to avoid anything third world it is best avoided. Heck me probably might just stick to Singapore, but if he does want to venture to another country I would recommend Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand and then the others, simply for the reasons I mentioned about ease of travel, cleanliness, safety, culture shock.
Well Indonesia have 17000 islands, hundreds of volcanoes, hundreds of mountains, virgin beaches and virgin rainforest natonal parks, thats something undebatable i think being a larger country just offers more i suppose. But tourism infras in Malaysia do help on what it offers to tourist.

Ahh the Papuan independence thingy, Australians media tend to exaggerate things when it comes to West Papua/Irian Jaya, they have lost support of many of the population who used to support them, since they began pillaging villages and farms in the countryside. And as far concerned the last incident was quiet long time ago and in fact the number of incident is still relatively very low, comparing it to insurgency in the neighborhood.

Most of the tribes in Indonesia is as friendly as the Balinese and Javanese, very welcoming as far as i know. But yeah there is a risk of malaria, dengue etc in remote areas and jungles, even those diseases is still a problem for Malaysia as well.

In Bangkok surprisinglly i didn't get scammed, the people instead are being helpful and sweet, its a matter of experience actually. But i was being fully aware about getting scammed wherever i travel anyway, i do know that Bangkok have loads of scammers but it just didn't get that bad for me.

I wouldn't suggest anything to the op, Asia is just too good for him :P
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Old 02-03-2014, 04:29 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,301,911 times
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Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
Well Indonesia have 17000 islands, hundreds of volcanoes, hundreds of mountains, virgin beaches and virgin rainforest natonal parks, thats something undebatable i think being a larger country just offers more i suppose. But tourism infras in Malaysia do help on what it offers to tourist.

Ahh the Papuan independence thingy, Australians media tend to exaggerate things when it comes to West Papua/Irian Jaya, they have lost support of many of the population who used to support them, since they began pillaging villages and farms in the countryside. And as far concerned the last incident was quiet long time ago and in fact the number of incident is still relatively very low, comparing it to insurgency in the neighborhood.

Most of the tribes in Indonesia is as friendly as the Balinese and Javanese, very welcoming as far as i know. But yeah there is a risk of malaria, dengue etc in remote areas and jungles, even those diseases is still a problem for Malaysia as well.

In Bangkok surprisinglly i didn't get scammed, the people instead are being helpful and sweet, its a matter of experience actually. But i was being fully aware about getting scammed wherever i travel anyway, i do know that Bangkok have loads of scammers but it just didn't get that bad for me.

I wouldn't suggest anything to the op, Asia is just too good for him :P
Yes, I don't mean to put down your country, I hope you didn't get the wrong impression, I'm actually going to Bali in 2 weeks time and look forward to it! I guess Malaysia is easier to visit, but Indonesia offers a lot Malaysia does not (and vice versa). Indonesia is of course bigger. Yes, maybe the OP will not want to visit either anyway.
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Old 02-03-2014, 05:17 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,152,136 times
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Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Yes, I don't mean to put down your country, I hope you didn't get the wrong impression, I'm actually going to Bali in 2 weeks time and look forward to it! I guess Malaysia is easier to visit, but Indonesia offers a lot Malaysia does not (and vice versa). Indonesia is of course bigger. Yes, maybe the OP will not want to visit either anyway.
Yeah,Malaysia is very easy because its much more modern place than Indonesia. It requires time and patient to enjoy the bunchful things that Indonesia have to offer, especially ferries to Nusa Tenggara islands and Komodo (luckily the airport at komodo island has just finished!) But then you can always see komodo dragon at most zoo in Indonesia.

I do hope you enjoy Bali, try to get out from Kuta as much as possible unless you like clubs, pubs or magic mushrom. Ubud is absolutely stunning if you like cultures and arts, the northern parts of Bali is untouched from massive tourism development. Do pay a visit to the 3 cultural Balinese villages, isolated from the outside world such as Panglipuran village (a village with same building all over the place) in Kintamani mount and theres the real Balinese native across lake batur who are adherent to Animanism (dead bodies placed under a tree might fascinate you). You will need driver actually to get around a lot, they arent that expensive so its worth!

If you would like anything to know about the island, feel free to ask.
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Old 02-03-2014, 05:30 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,301,911 times
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Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
Yeah,Malaysia is very easy because its much more modern place than Indonesia. It requires time and patient to enjoy the bunchful things that Indonesia have to offer, especially ferries to Nusa Tenggara islands and Komodo (luckily the airport at komodo island has just finished!) But then you can always see komodo dragon at most zoo in Indonesia.

I do hope you enjoy Bali, try to get out from Kuta as much as possible unless you like clubs, pubs or magic mushrom. Ubud is absolutely stunning if you like cultures and arts, the northern parts of Bali is untouched from massive tourism development. Do pay a visit to the 3 cultural Balinese villages, isolated from the outside world such as Panglipuran village (a village with same building all over the place) in Kintamani mount and theres the real Balinese native across lake batur who are adherent to Animanism (dead bodies placed under a tree might fascinate you). You will need driver actually to get around a lot, they arent that expensive so its worth!

If you would like anything to know about the island, feel free to ask.
We're staying 3 nights in Ubud and 3 nights in Seminyak. I am not really interested in Kuta at all, by the sounds of it. I'm more interested in Balinese culture, it's so unique.

I'd like to go to Komodo too, to see the dragons. Also want to go to Lake Toba and Gunung Leseur NP in Sumatra, Mt Bromo and Borbodur, maybe Bandung and Surabaya, maybe Lombok and the more remote eastern parts of Indonesia.

Last edited by The Postman; 02-03-2014 at 06:27 AM..
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Old 02-03-2014, 05:36 AM
 
1,102 posts, read 1,676,803 times
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Originally Posted by stevania01 View Post
Mr. Postman if you Speaks about terrorism ... I think Thailand or Philipines is often heard even occur where bombs everywhere than in Indonesia is very rare, we were all very frightened if know somebody it terorisme or bomb incident ... the most hated here terrorism and considered uneducated and easily influenced. and did you know Indonesia have the best squad " Detasemen " to combat terrorism . because we all always think positive.
TERRORISM in Indonesia is Past, and will die forever get to the root of the root
Perhaps Indonesia has cleaned up now, and you might claim that it is safer than either Thailand or the Philippines, but according to international sources, the Jemaah Islamiyah is still active there. And the two Marriott and two Bali bombings happened not so long ago, and all are far worse than any bombings that have occurred in either Thailand or the Philippines. So from an international perspective, it will still take some time before someone will declare that Indonesia is as safe as you claim it to be.
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