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American cities are not really so good for "living" in. Most middle class and upper class live in the suburbs or countryside. Poor people stay in the inner cities, which makes the inner cities dangerous after evening (or even before it).
NYC is the only big city with lots of middle class residents in downtown area. Many other cities are like ghost towns after dark, except for tourist places and bar streets. Chinese cities are very different in this regard.
This is not really true anymore. Downtown Seattle is definitely more middle/upper class than poor. San Francisco too. And many other cities are experiencing more urban growth as younger, professional people are not as fond suburban living as previous generations were.
NYC metro has a median income of around 60k, about 4 times of Shanghai.
but look at this: get a cab costs 3 times higher than SH, public transport costs 4 times higher, a decent school costs 10 times higher, a doctor visit costs 10 times higher,
So in terms of real purchasing power, I would say SH is not much behind NYC
I found very funny that an average american need to finance to buy a new car. That's just laughable. In shanghai, an average family will have no problem to come up with cash to buy a new car. In fact, a lot of family (middle income) can come up with cash to buy an apartment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101
The NYC metro area has a mean income higher than any country on earth. And there is no city on the planet, outside the U.S., with higher mean income than the NYC metro.
The average person in NYC lives like a king compared to the average person in China. If the mean/median household has an "awful" life in NYC, I cannot imagine what you think of the mean/median household in Shanghai.
And I don't "imagine" NYC to be #1 in the world, it likely is #1. The only real competition would be London Paris and Tokyo.
If you earn a medium income in NYC, sorry you won't be able to live like a king. but instead like a slave.
You can only afford to live in a studio there.
Anyway, being a beggar in NYC looks a better quality of life to you than living in comfortable life in China.
I can understand people are jealous of what china has accomplished.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101
The NYC metro area has a mean income higher than any country on earth. And there is no city on the planet, outside the U.S., with higher mean income than the NYC metro.
The average person in NYC lives like a king compared to the average person in China. If the mean/median household has an "awful" life in NYC, I cannot imagine what you think of the mean/median household in Shanghai.
And I don't "imagine" NYC to be #1 in the world, it likely is #1. The only real competition would be London Paris and Tokyo.
Renting a one-bedroom apartment in Manhattan costs at least $3000 per month. Forget about quality. No they do not live like kings. Have you ever been there?
I lived in Manhattan. I paid $1,700 a month for a very nice apartment in a great neighborhood (East Village). And I was making well over 100k, so it was cheap living.
First, you are wrong. One bedrooms in Manhattan start at much lower than $3,000 a month. You can rent a studio for half that. You can rent a one bedroom for $2,000.
Second, Manhattan has, by far, the highest incomes of any county in the U.S., and the U.S. is the richest country on earth. So Manhattan has basically the highest incomes on earth. Obviously rents will not be cheap in such a place.
And, third, Manhattan is not remotely representative of the NYC region. There are 23 million people in the metro area, and only 1.7 million residents in Manhattan. No one has to live in Manhattan. It is a choice. Manhattan is a luxury product. Saying "NYC is expensive because Manhattan is expensive" is as illogical a saying "Purses are expensive because Louis Vuitton purses are expensive".
Often, places outside of Manhattan are more desirable than Manhattan anyways. Williamsburg, Brooklyn has higher rents than many parts of Manhattan these days. There are many other examples.
This is not really true anymore. Downtown Seattle is definitely more middle/upper class than poor. San Francisco too. And many other cities are experiencing more urban growth as younger, professional people are not as fond suburban living as previous generations were.
Exactly. While NYC obviously stands apart in terms of urban wealth, there is plenty of urban wealth in Seattle, SF, Chicago, Philly, Boston, Washington, Miami, LA, etc.
I lived in Manhattan. I paid $1,700 a month for a very nice apartment in a great neighborhood (East Village). And I was making well over 100k, so it was cheap living.
First, you are wrong. One bedrooms in Manhattan start at much lower than $3,000 a month. You can rent a studio for half that. You can rent a one bedroom for $2,000.
Second, Manhattan has, by far, the highest incomes of any county in the U.S., and the U.S. is the richest country on earth. So Manhattan has basically the highest incomes on earth. Obviously rents will not be cheap in such a place.
And, third, Manhattan is not remotely representative of the NYC region. There are 23 million people in the metro area, and only 1.7 million residents in Manhattan. No one has to live in Manhattan. It is a choice. Manhattan is a luxury product. Saying "NYC is expensive because Manhattan is expensive" is as illogical a saying "Purses are expensive because Louis Vuitton purses are expensive".
Often, places outside of Manhattan are more desirable than Manhattan anyways. Williamsburg, Brooklyn has higher rents than many parts of Manhattan these days. There are many other examples.
Did you fabricate the data by yourself? Even searching on craigslist can prove your prices are nonsense.
I live in Boston, which is cheaper than Manhattan. One-bedrooms below $2000 do not exist in Boston and Cambridge, unless you are talking about sharing, or a studio. But even a studio costs $2000, usually.
NOLA101, why do you claim so much that is obviously false?
Since when the US is the richest country on earth? Like never? And since when Manhattan (a subdivision of a city) has the highest income on earth? It is completely wrong. Which cities did you compare it to?
A simple googling shows "Measured by median income, Manhattan and (especially) Brooklyn are much poorer than you think. Manhattan's median annual household income is $66,739". San Jose for example, has a median household income of more than $80,000. If we go by subdivisions, Manhattan probably won't be in the top 10 in the US, not to mention the entire planet you mentioned with such enthusiasm. Zurich for example, definitely has high income, probably 30% more.
I agree that one doesn't have to live in Manhattan and not the entire NYC is expensive... but all the nice things about NYC are mostly from Manhattan, so if one lives in remote Queens or Brooklyn, well, he is hardly in the New York that people think of.
Plus, your apartment is most likely rent controlled. Doesn't mean everyone can rent such a place for $1700 in east village. Doesn't mean if you move out, you will still be able to get a similar place for the same price.
That guy lives in his dream. Maybe he lived in a slum neighborhood. Manhattan is full of slums anyway
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish
Did you fabricate the data by yourself? Even searching on craigslist can prove your prices are nonsense.
I live in Boston, which is cheaper than Manhattan. One-bedrooms below $2000 do not exist in Boston and Cambridge, unless you are talking about sharing, or a studio. But even a studio costs $2000, usually.
It is so funny that the Manhattan lifestyle that many Americans envy is very common place in Asia, like excellent public transport, good night life, high rise apartments, convenience store around the corner, good restaurants, etc. SH just has much nicer options of all those.
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli
NOLA101, why do you claim so much that is obviously false?
Since when the US is the richest country on earth? Like never? And since when Manhattan (a subdivision of a city) has the highest income on earth? It is completely wrong. Which cities did you compare it to?
A simple googling shows "Measured by median income, Manhattan and (especially) Brooklyn are much poorer than you think. Manhattan's median annual household income is $66,739". San Jose for example, has a median household income of more than $80,000. If we go by subdivisions, Manhattan probably won't be in the top 10 in the US, not to mention the entire planet you mentioned with such enthusiasm. Zurich for example, definitely has high income, probably 30% more.
I agree that one doesn't have to live in Manhattan and not the entire NYC is expensive... but all the nice things about NYC are mostly from Manhattan, so if one lives in remote Queens or Brooklyn, well, he is hardly in the New York that people think of.
Plus, your apartment is most likely rent controlled. Doesn't mean everyone can rent such a place for $1700 in east village. Doesn't mean if you move out, you will still be able to get a similar place for the same price.
It is so funny that the Manhattan lifestyle that many Americans envy is very common place in Asia, like excellent public transport, good night life, high rise apartments, convenience store around the corner, good restaurants, etc. SH just has much nicer options of all those.
Does Shanghai have the entertainment options that NYC has? Does it have the vibrant theatre scene (broadway and off)? The tv show/movie scene (Letterman, Daily show, sitcoms, tons of new shows, etc.)? World-class museums? The music scene? That was the aspect of NYC i liked the most--just so much to do (and often free or very cheap which is another plus in such an expensive city)
In my opinion only London really competes with New York for entertainment options. Paris is close (better for museums, but less so on theatre and music and tv). Tokyo has some good options too (especially on the pop-culture front, it probably even beats NYC).
Shanghai seems cool, and like you said definitely excels in convenience and public transit and probably restaurants, but also like you said, this is common in Asia. I think exported culture and entertainment is where Tokyo shines, and I honestly do not know much about that aspect of Shanghai.
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